Lord of the Fries

[General Ludd]

Poor people? I think McDonald's biggest customers are children / teenagers.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Jac de Molay
This is all assuming, of course, that the grocery stores are actually WHERE the poor people are. Is there transportation for car-less poor people to get to these places? Do they even accept food stamps or other vouchers?

Poor people, in general, have much less access to grocery stores that offer healthy nutrional staples, so they do rely on junk-peddlers like party stores and McD's for food.

Another case of America Is Different, I guess. I live in a pretty run-down area, and have three grocery stores within a five minute walk (one within 100m). McD's, OTOH, are only to be found in the city centre and way out at the Autobahn.

[Capt Dizle]

McDonalds certainly has a responsibility in my opinion. They intentionaly target their advertising at children and this puts pressure on parents. Sure, you can say that parents have to take the bull by the horns and all of that, but in any society any institution that seeks to enrich itself should have to answer to all. We have a right to take them to task when the public health is concerned. If you can't deal with fast food purveyors then you can't deal with cigarette makers. Whether you approach this as an issue of personal responsibility or by societal law is a matter of how much involvement you want government to have in your life. But the fact is that their product is harmful and something needs to be done about it.

I'd rather have a president who runs and takes pride in his health than the one that we had that ate junk food. I don't think that a good example is too much to expect.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Capt Dizle
I'd rather have a president who runs and takes pride in his health than the one that we had that ate junk food. I don't think that a good example is too much to expect.

Clinton ran all the time, and he dropped 30 pounds or so during his presidency by forswearing fast food. He is still in good shape.

Now, let's talk about Mr. Cheney, eh?

Oh wait, the thread is about fast food, not partisan politics. Thanks anyway.

[Arrian]

This is all assuming, of course, that the grocery stores are actually WHERE the poor people are. Is there transportation for car-less poor people to get to these places? Do they even accept food stamps or other vouchers?

Poor people, in general, have much less access to grocery stores that offer healthy nutrional staples, so they do rely on junk-peddlers like party stores and McD's for food.

While I think there is some truth to this, I really don't think it's much of an excuse for people eating Mickey D's all the time.

When I was in college in Hartford (****ty area), the local grocery store was accessible to the surrounding area. It wasn't the nicest grocery store, certainly. We evil rich kids all drove out to the Super Stop & Shop a few miles away because it was nicer. It didn't stink, for instance.

HOWEVER, if I had a choice between the smelly Walbaums and eating McDonalds all the time... I mean, are you kidding me?

-Arrian

[mindseye]

One of the unfortunate consequences of moving to China is that I eat about 900% more fast-food than when I lived in culinary paradise San Francisco.

I really love Chinese food, and while there is a very great variety of it, sooner or later (after about two years in my case) you crave some variety. Cheese! Potatoes! Besides offering a chance to eat some non-Chinese food, being able to eat lunch in 15 minutes is a big plus to a teacher occasionally dashing between classroom locations over the noon hour.

In Shanghai you can easily find just about any kind of international cuisine (I had Nepalese recently). However, international restaurants are expensive, even while the food is often second-rate. At a typical neighborhood restaurant, I can have a pretty good dinner for about 25 renminbi. At the French restaurant in my neighborhood, the price would be more like 300 renminbi (without wine).

So, that leaves McDonalds and KFC. Pizza Hut is also here in abundance, but it's crazy expensive (the equivalent of an American paying $30 for a 9" Pizza Hut pie). There is one Taco Bell in Shanghai, but it's an expensive sit-down waitress-and-menu joint!

Here in Shanghai (as in most large Chinese cities). McDonalds and KFC are everywhere, perhaps even more common than the are in an American city! Within a radius of six blocks of my apartment, I think there are three McDs, four KFCs and a Pizza Hut. I live in a largely residential neighborhood. Downtown, I have seen two KFCs on the same block.

Unfortunately, as Morgan Spurlock discovered, eating so much American fast food is not without effect on the health of young urban Chinese. One of my friends had a job teaching at a local hospital. According to the doctors there, obesity was just one problem. They were also very concerned over the effects of children and teens consuming so much hormone-laced meat (chicken and beef served at McDs and KFC is imported from the US). One of the first things visitors to China notice is how much taller young people are than their parents. It's striking. Fatter, taller -- now the Chinese are being super-sized! Young Chinese are also starting puberty earlier, perhaps due to the increase in hormone consumption.

Fortunately, my weight has not changed even one pound in over 3 years of living here, so I guess the healthy Chinese food outweighs the increase in American fast food.

---

That Chinese love American fast food so much is truly ironic, since most Chinese are absolutely uninterested in trying any other kind of non-Chinese food. The standard opinion is that "everybody knows Chinese food is the best in the world, so why bother eating anything else?" Chinese tourists or business travelers can spend a week or two in Thailand or Europe, and never eat anything but second-rate Chinatown Chinese food. I'm not exaggerating this. One of my friends had a corporate teaching gig working with a Chinese staff who were planning a three week business trip to Milan. After they returned, he asked them how they liked Italian food. During three weeks in Italy, not one of the staff tried even a single bite of Italian food!

I often ask students about Thai food, since Thailand is now a popular Chinese vacation destination. A typical exchange:

Me: "Why haven’t you tried Thai food?"
Student (invariable answer): "It's too spicy".
Me: "How do you know it's too spicy if you never tried it?"
Student: "Everyone knows it."
Me: "Do you personally know anyone, or ever heard of anyone, who has tried Thai food?"
Student (after pause): "No."
Me: "If you don’t know even one person who has tried Thai food, how does 'everyone' know it's too spicy?"
Student: "Everyone knows it!"
Me: "Well, I've personally eaten lots of Thai food and lots of Chinese food, and I can tell you, Thai food is much less spicy than Sichuan (Szechuan) food."

The conversation always stops here, they cannot respond to this. It's as if I was claiming that from first-hand knowledge that Thailand was north of Canada.

Yet while Chinese will turn their noses up at cuisines like Thai and Indian - not even willing to sample them - they will stand in a line outside in the winter, waiting to get into ... Pizza Hut!

Below is a typical lunchtime line outside a Pizza Hut not far from my apartment. On a weekend or holiday, the line can be much longer.

[Jac de Molay]

Originally posted by Arrian

HOWEVER, if I had a choice between the smelly Walbaums and eating McDonalds all the time... I mean, are you kidding me?

That's the thing though, at least here- We don't have even have the luxury of sh*tty grocery stores that offer even substandard fruits and veggies. The bulletproof-glass encased McD's and KFC outnumber any decent grocery stores, or even CVS, by about 20 to 1. Businesses are so afraid of crime, they won't open up any kind of open-air operation.

When a local chain, Farmer Jack, actually did open an outlet in the city proper, you would have thought the Pope was coming back to town.

[Arrian]

Ugh, Mindseye. Ugh. Unfortunate that the Chinese have picked one of the worst possible foreign foods to eat and ignored the others.

I love Americanized chinese food, btw. Sesame Chicken & PFR. Love the stuff. Don't eat it much, though, since I'm sure it's hideously bad for you.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Jac de Molay


That's the thing though, at least here- We don't have even have the luxury of sh*tty grocery stores that offer even substandard fruits and veggies. The bulletproof-glass encased McD's and KFC outnumber any decent grocery stores, or even CVS, by about 20 to 1. Businesses are so afraid of crime, they won't open up any kind of open-air operation.

When a local chain, Farmer Jack, actually did open an outlet in the city proper, you would have thought the Pope was coming back to town.

Oh. Well, at least in the case of Detroit, I guess I'm wrong then.

-Arrian

[Boris Godunov]

You're wrong in the case of most of the U.S. outside of the wealthy suburbs or upscale urban areas. Whenever I go home to eastern MD, it's a struggle to find healthy food to eat when going out, even to "proper" restaurants. It's deep fried or nothing.

I think it's also a much more significant problem in the South, considering traditional cuisine there.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Arrian
Ugh, Mindseye. Ugh. Unfortunate that the Chinese have picked one of the worst possible foreign foods to eat and ignored the others.

I love Americanized chinese food, btw. Sesame Chicken & PFR. Love the stuff. Don't eat it much, though, since I'm sure it's hideously bad for you.

-Arrian

My roommate's doctor told him to avoid Chinese food as much as possible, because it's high in cholesterol and sodium. In fact, the sodium levels are unbelievable. And here Dan thought he was being healthy by eating chicken w/ broccoli.

[Spiffor]

Mindseye's post makes me want to cry

[Boris Godunov]

Weep, Frenchie, for America's triumph is near total!

[GePap]

The notion the poor should be making their own food at home and not paying for the "luxury" of fast food seems to come only from people who don;t have a freaking clue about the urban poor.

As has been said:

1. Access to supermarkets is limited-even then for the working poor the time to cook is low.

2. IN reality, the cheapest fast food is comparative with cooking at home-look at wendies and it's 1 dollar menu-for about 4 bucks you can get a lot of food-and superzising does entice people.

There is a reaosn obesity is more prevalent among the poor-the fact is the cheapest food now is the most fattening as well. Cheaper to buy a sack of potatos and a gallon of oil to fry it in that fruits and vegetables.

Oh, and my boss went to school with this guy..sadly, that has not gotten us in the staff a free way to get in

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Weep, Frenchie, for America's triumph is near total!

Not even in a Frenchie way. But I mean, these people who went three weeks in Italy... and didn't have one bite of Italian food? The heresy!