Why do people not like Muslims?

[Whaleboy]

I'm surprised you don't suggest that Nazism was the Germans culture back in 1940s , and we shouldn't judge them... let alone lift a finger against them...

I do . Of course, that all changed when they attacked other nations, in which case war was justified, but not simply upon the merits of nazism itself.

Sure female genital mutiliation is ok in Africa, after all it is their culure... to take some broken glass and cut into the vagina of girls.......

A horrifically emotive example but my argument remains unchanged.

After all there is no evil in the world, just misunderstanding, some culural translation problems that all.

Correct, though "cultural translation" as you put it as a larger problem than you imply .

Spiffor:

[Ming]

Thorn... you better chill... or I will chill you

[Ramo]

I'm wondering, what is the Islamic culture? Is it in Bangladesh, which has had a women PM before most Western states have had women leaders (including the one I live in)? Or maybe it's in Turkey, no less secular a society than any in the West? Islamism is evil, but labelling every (or most, etc.) Muslim as a radical Islamist is rediculous.

[Whaleboy]

It's just that, out of all of the religions I have ever studied, Islam is the one that is least likely to have a positive effect, either on an individual or larger-scale, and it confounds me that so many of my fellow liberal-minded folk are so willing to bend over backwards to defend an institution that is, generally speaking, a force of oppression.

Satanism?

If you are simply defending them because they are the "underdog" right now, I can respect that.

Yes. If you're asking me whether I support terrorism, I say that as a pacifist I'll be the first to protest against it. If you asked whether I support the subjugation of women, homosexuals, liberals, intellectuals etc, I say no. I just don't think that I, or anyone else, is so necesarily correct in their views as to force it upon others as "more correct".

On the other hand, I see a hell of a lot of good stuff in Muslim culture, not to mention the degree to which many of the advances in the West have been directly due to Islam.

Nonetheless, I have a date with a duvet

Ming: Who is that in your avatar?

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by Spiffor

It smells like a troll. It looks like a troll. But it is not one. It is a disguised valid argument.

Look at it this way:
Who supports Israel since the beginning, only making the continuation of this eternal war and humiliation possible.
Who is arrogant enough to call countries "acis of evil", and attack them on a whim?
Who bombed Afghanistan and killed thousands of innocent Afghanis?
Who attacked Iraq and killed thousands of innocent Iraqis?
Who threatened Syria and Iran? Who threatens North Korea? Who started to bomb Serbia? Who bombed an aspirin factory in Sudan, killing many and destroying one of the few pharmaceutical assets of this impoverished country? Who is manipulating oppressive governments everywhere in the world? Who, who who?

The great Satan. The world would be much better when we'll all be tired of you and decide to level you

If you want to dig up every dirt each civilization has, then I have plenty more for you. Do you want some?

To be honest, I don't care **** about all the aggressions you leftists are *****ing about. I only care about who is creating the most wealth and technological advances.

[Whaleboy]

LM: If it wasn't for Islam, the West would still be in the Dark Ages . Don't look at things so black and white.

[Thorn]

Originally posted by Whaleboy


I do . Of course, that all changed when they attacked other nations, in which case war was justified, but not simply upon the merits of nazism itself.



A horrifically emotive example but my argument remains unchanged.



Correct, though "cultural translation" as you put it as a larger problem than you imply .

Spiffor:

So the murder of 10 million people including Jews is justifiable according to you. That IS what Nazism stood for. But crossing an invisible boundry and attacking other people is not... what kind of screwed up morals, do you have, kid?

[Ming]

Thorn... attack the arguments... NOT THE POSTERS... or your return tonight will be a short one.

[Thorn]

*thorn retires from the thread*

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by Spiffor
And to make my previous post clear:

No, I don't think the US is a great Satan. No, I certainly don't wish for the US to be leveled. I can't stand the idea of war against Iraq, I wonder how I could possibly stand the idea of a war against the US.

I just want to pinpoint that the US has been involved in troubles all around the world. I could have talked about what you did in Latin America, or in Africa as well. The US is constantly using its military might one place or another to coerce other countries. The US sparks trouble all across the world.

And the Americans will find excuses, will be as self-righteous when they defend these actions, as the average Muslim defending the suicide bombers.

You can only imagine the clash when two such big(oted) egoes meet. That's what we are having now. And no offense, Lord Merciless, but you are exactly as bigoted as the average terrorist-supporter. You just support the exactions of the other side.

I never cared all this moral superiority/inferiority bull****. I never claimed to be a better person than them, and in fact I'm a quite evil person. They should be glad I'm not the President of the United States since I have tons of devious madcap schemes going against them.

On a serious note, I'm always supporting the side that is building, creating, and innovating. In the 40 years Arab-Israel conflict, Arab nations such as Egypt and Syria remain the ****hole as they have always been, while Israel, despite threatened constantly and sneak-attacked 4 times, has built one of the most intriguing countries in the world. The Hebrew University is one of the best in the world, and Teva Pharmaceuticals is the largest generic drug producer in the world. For me, Israelis represent the builder and innovator, while the Arabs represent the destroyer and stagnator.

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by Whaleboy

On the other hand, I see a hell of a lot of good stuff in Muslim culture, not to mention the degree to which many of the advances in the West have been directly due to Islam.

A few flowers on a big pile of **** are not worth picking.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
As soon as Christianity becomes the victim of Nazi-like arguments from elements in those societies capable of doing something about it, I'll defend Christianity. I see Christian extremists in the USA and Islamic extremists in very much the same light. The formers destruction, however, has not been seriously proposed.

Because Christian extremists do not generally commit acts of violence (at least not on the scale of Muslim extremists). Plus, they do not have a serious chance of subverting the democractic process to create a Christian state.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
Ah fair enough (and ditto), in which case, may I advocate using the term "I prefer such and such ideas" as opposed to "these are superior", since the latter could be confused for an objective statement, also implying that you are ignoring the fact-value distinction, which it seems you are not .

I would also argue that they are inferior in the sense that their methods are less effective, in the same way that a slide rule is inferior to a computer

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Thorn
I hate cultural relativism, it turns people into a bunch of raving idiots....

Sure female genital mutiliation is ok in Africa, after all it is their culure... to take some broken glass and cut into the vagina of girls.......

I'm surprised you don't suggest that Nazism was the Germans culture back in 1940s , and we shouldn't judge them... let alone lift a finger against them...

After all there is no evil in the world, just misunderstanding, some culural translation problems that all.

You don't understand relativism at all.

Relativists can (and usually do) have personal moral views, they just don't make the mistake of saying that their morality has some objective truth.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Lord Merciless
I never cared all this moral superiority/inferiority bull****. I never claimed to be a better person than them

Sorry, I replied to this:

Originally posted by Lord Merciless
Exactly, there are Muslims, and Muslims are murdering and destroying in every corner of this planet, from North America to Europe to Russia, from South America to Africa to Southeast Asia.

They are the troublemakers of the world. If they don't change their behaviors, then the world will make sure they stop.

Merely claiming that there are many valid reasons to call YOUR country the troublemakers of the world, that should change its behaviour, unless it wants the world to make sure it stops.

On a serious note, I'm always supporting the side that is building, creating, and innovating. In the 40 years Arab-Israel conflict, Arab nations such as Egypt and Syria remain the ****hole as they have always been, while Israel, despite threatened constantly and sneak-attacked 4 times, has built one of the most intriguing countries in the world. The Hebrew University is one of the best in the world, and Teva Pharmaceuticals is the largest generic drug producer in the world. For me, Israelis represent the builder and innovator, while the Arabs represent the destroyer and stagnator.

I agree with you on this one, and many Arabs of the intelligentsia are as dreaded as you are from the constant self-moaning that makes them remain immobile. There are some sparks of hope, for example in Qatar, where they are building a very modern university with oil money (unlike the Saudi cretins who spend their oil dollars building palaces and buying expansive cars)