Why do people not like Muslims?

[Whaleboy]

So, one shouldn't take offense if one's family was killed, say, in Egypt?

Emotive terms. If there's a civilian massacre somewhere, I won't be happy about it, and I'll mourn the loss of human life, and be resolved that I wouldn't do such a thing myself but I won't go galovanting around claiming I have a right to stop them.

Nonetheless, take my disdain for that act on its own. Does that constitute a reason for me to dislike Islam?

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by Whaleboy

You honestly think the ancestor of every Muslim today was forced into it by the sword? . More people were converted into Catholics by the direct consequences of military action than Islam, by quite a long way imo.

Please point to where I said that. That's what I thought... you can't. It's a nice attempted misdirection, though. The difference, and this is from a non-Christian, is that Jesus never took up the sword to spread Christianity, while Islam was spread that way starting with Mohammed.

[Whaleboy]

Please point to where I said that. That's what I thought... you can't. It's a nice attempted misdirection, though. The difference, and this is from a non-Christian, is that Jesus never took up the sword to spread Christianity, while Islam was spread that way starting with Mohammed.

Muhammad was a warrior now? Am I missing something?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Azazel
The problems I see, and the things I hate about the arabic islamic society, and the islamic society in countries adjacent to the arab world, that are heavily influenced by it, are those:

-The society is rigid, and change is painful.
-The society doesn't have humanitarian values.
-The society is extremely self-righteous.
-The society is sexist.
-The society is homophobic.
-The society is against personal freedoms.
-The society is excessively allowing for violence.

What's scary is that this describes the religous right in United States, to which part of the Republican party panders to.

[Whaleboy]

MrFun: There really isn't that much difference in that regard between the Conservatives of the West and the Islamic Fundies. They both want to kill each other with equal tenacity.

[MrFun]

Good point -- I think the world might be a better place if we lock up all the Christian fundamentalists with the Islamic fundamentalists and just let them have at it with each other.

[Whaleboy]

You're on to something there... now which state should play host?

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by Whaleboy


Muhammad was a warrior now? Am I missing something?

Apparently quite a bit. History texts would be a good start.

[lightblue]

Hmm.. something not important and not too densely populated... Greenland maybe?

[Solomwi]

Now there's something I'm with both of you on. Put it in Georgia and I get the popcorn concession.

[Lord Merciless]

My best hope is that Muslimes will ditch Islam in the same way as Christians did to Christianity during the age of Enlightenment.

I'm trying not to hate anyone, because it's bad for my mood and my health. No point in wasting emotions on jerks.

[:) Smiley]

Which state? I'd go for Utah.

But anyways, can anyone explain the origin of the two branches of Islam?

[Whaleboy]

My best hope is that Muslimes will ditch Islam in the same way as Christians did to Christianity during the age of Enlightenment.

To what end?

[Monk]

Whaleboy,

Do you not think that collectivity/individuality is a somewhat too simplistic a definition?

Why the surprised face? I'm not offended or anything, far from, but what else would you expect? Collectiveness is the main thing, I think. Firstly, in a society in praise of individualism, women are measured by their personal qualities and not on account of their gender. Secondly, it's the collective approach - such as being oriented towards the family and religion before everything else - which is the reason why 20-year-old 2nd generation immigrants who have lived their entire life in an otherwise homogenous European country still aren't comfortable speaking the local language. If this can happen around here (and it does), then I dare not even think of the conditions in Kreuzberg or the immigrant-heavy neighbourhoods in various French cities.

Naturally, this lack of integration is caused by a multitude of factors other than religion, including but not limited to income levels, housing conditions and mutual feelings of recjection by the establishment that must all be taken into careful consideration. But when the 'ordinary' tax-payer recognises that the immigration problem mainly lies with those from Muslim countries, that's when he develops his dislike. He's not 'judging other societies' from his own standpoint in support of Arab women or the state of Israel; he's protesting because he's paying the bills for Muslims in his own welfare state - and he's basically doing something of which you must approve as you said, 'we can judge for our society and whether stuff is applicable here'.

(edit: the correct spelling is 'Arab' women of course)

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
No, the Sunni religion has NO centralization whatsoever.

Wouldnt it be more correct to say that there is no centralized independent religious hierarchy in Sunnism? Rather the State was expected to respond to the wishes of the DECENTRALIZED Ulema, and to enforce Sharia? Which it did to VERY varying degrees through history (though to a much lesser degree than both Islamist extremists and Western Islam haters state) Did not the Ottoman Empire have a full hierarchy of muftis (juriconsults) and sharia courts throughout the empire, generally following one particular school of Sharia law (the relatively "moderate" Hanafi school?) Not sure how this played out in Moghul India, IIUC rather differently than in Ottoman lands.

And of course its possible to have a form of excommunication without either a centralized hierarchy, or a state religion. Spinoza was excommunicated by the Rabbis of Amsterdam, despite the absence of Jewish Bishops, popes, etc. The leading rabbis simply issued a decree, which was respected in other communities out of respect for learning of said rabbis, solidarity within rabbinate, etc. IIUC the issuing of Fatwas, respect among the Ulema, works in a similar manner in Sunni Islam. With certain principle seats of learning (al Ahzar in Cairo, for example) playing an analagous role to that which the great Yeshivas of eastern europe once did, or to what Yeshiva University does today.