Noah's Arc

[GePap]

Well, I would expect that he would have you find your own damned answer and have to be trully faithful to him, as opposed to thinking he need to prove to you what according to your own babble you should believe without question even if not a single shred of physical evidence were ever EVER found.

So either you are a hypocrite, a man professing faith but trully unsure and hungry for some external validation

OR

You are a very succesful troll.

[Gibsie]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Ogie, that's not true, and I think you know it.
A "self-respecting" atheist rarely changes their mind.

That's not true. Why, just last week I decided I like chicken kievs after not liking them for years. So there you have it

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Originally posted by GePap
Well, I would expect that he would have you find your own damned answer and have to be trully faithful to him, as opposed to thinking he need to prove to you what according to your own babble you should believe without question even if not a single shred of physical evidence were ever EVER found.

So either you are a hypocrite, a man professing faith but trully unsure and hungry for some external validation

OR

You are a very succesful troll.

It's not like their haven't already been Biblical artifacts that have been found.

[GePap]

Ah, but none of them were found in what would be trully miraculous situations, as the likelyhood of finding more than a chunk of wood on top of the mountain would be. We find artifacts from the Pharaoes form thousands of year before biblical time-of course we will then be able to find things from the times of the bible.

YOU are the one claiming something miraculous is afoot when all of a sudden someone comes and burst your bubble by posting a very convincing piece on why the lieklyhood of anything resembling a boat being found in those conditions is piss poor to impossible at best.

You claim the "aethists" won;t change their minds-then when someone simple tells you the scientific facts don;y back your hopes, you go of running to claim some miracle will save your ass.

Well, they say God helps those who help themselves. He does not go around validating people's poor faith with parlor tricks.

[Aeson]

At last, all shall know the truth of the epic of Gilgamesh, and return to worship Anu... or something like that.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy
It's not like their haven't already been Biblical artifacts that have been found.

Like what?

[Japher]

Dead Sea Scrolls, Jesus' cloth thingy (supposidly), and some tombstone with the name James written on it (I guess they were big then too )

[monkspider]

@ this thread

Give up the ghost, Mr. Nice guy.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Japher
Dead Sea Scrolls, Jesus' cloth thingy (supposidly), and some tombstone with the name James written on it (I guess they were big then too )

Dead Sea Scrolls aren't mentioned in the Bible. The Shroud of Turin is a fake and so is the James funeral box.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Originally posted by GePap
Ah, but none of them were found in what would be trully miraculous situations, as the likelyhood of finding more than a chunk of wood on top of the mountain would be. We find artifacts from the Pharaoes form thousands of year before biblical time-of course we will then be able to find things from the times of the bible.

YOU are the one claiming something miraculous is afoot when all of a sudden someone comes and burst your bubble by posting a very convincing piece on why the lieklyhood of anything resembling a boat being found in those conditions is piss poor to impossible at best.

You claim the "aethists" won;t change their minds-then when someone simple tells you the scientific facts don;y back your hopes, you go of running to claim some miracle will save your ass.

Well, they say God helps those who help themselves. He does not go around validating people's poor faith with parlor tricks.

There are two possibilities (other than decomposition):

1)It could be petrified. Given the fact that it would've been a very solidly built vessel to withstand a year at sea, built from gopherwood and covered in pitch, as well as being preserved by the ice which eventually settled over it, pertrification is a very real possibility. Remember, Wooly Mammoths have been found almost perfectly preserved in similar places such as Siberia. In some cases, even the contents of their stomachs were still preserved.

The size and durability of the Ark would be almost unprecidented by early man.

2)God could simply desire for it to be found. Perhaps (pure speculation here) as an end-times "sign of the season". Kind of an ironic symbol of the "days of Noah" coming full-circle. If this were the case, no Christian would doubt His ability to preserve/petrify the ark.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy
1)It could be petrified. Given the fact that it would've been a very solidly built vessel to withstand a year at sea, built from gopherwood and covered in pitch, as well as being preserved by the ice which eventually settled over it, pertrification is a very real possibility. Remember, Wooly Mammoths have been found almost perfectly preserved in similar places such as Siberia. In some cases, even the contents of their stomachs were still preserved.

This is why Fundies need to take science classes.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

In order to apply science to this you must first understand how the Ark was built and what it was made of:

http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=GEN%2B6%3A14-16&showfn=on&showxref=on&language=english&version=NIV&x=12&y=12

NIV (New International Version)

Genesis 6
14 So make yourself an ark of cypress wood; make rooms in it and coat it with pitch inside and out. 15 This is how you are to build it: The ark is to be 450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high. 16 Make a roof for it and finish the ark to within 18 inches of the top. Put a door in the side of the ark and make lower, middle and upper decks.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy


But Jesus looked at them and said to them, "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." --Matthew 19:26

Since God promised Noah that Noah wouldn't need that boat again and it presumably stunk to high heaven , why would God bother keeping it around? Moreover, why would He conceal it for thousands of years, and make the glacier look and act in every way like a normal glacier, but not actually be one in that specific spot? If God wanted to remind people of the flood, or if there was some significance to the ark itself, then He could have put it a bit lower on the mountain and preserved it for all to see throughout the ages.

It's a bit tough to claim God gave special treatment to something that would seem to be God's discarded junk.

[Kropotkin]

So, could someone make a list of all animals that Noah needed to include in the ark and how much food was needed for some time at sea and thereafter for the animals to feed of before the vegetation is restored and compare those figures with the size of the ark and see if the exact figures and the story itself should be taken literary.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara




This is why Fundies need to take science classes.

Actually, he's not too far off on preservation (if you discount glacial movement, structural stresss, etc. Wooden ships of great antiquity have been found in good states of preservation when sunk and deposited in fairly ideal conditions.