Iraq, Shiite Armageddon, the Mahdi Army, chaos theory and the Hidden Imam

[Tripledoc]

Originally posted by Giancarlo


Oh please. It already has been provened that Saddam skimmed tens of billions from the oil for food program. Iraq had plenty of money and it wasn't the US's fault they died.

Unfortunately, for the validity of your argument, the deaths had nothing to do with a lack of food. The deaths were primarily caused by filthy water. This because the UN sanctions denied the import of chemicals to clean the river water, and the fact that the US deliberatly bombed water cleaning facilities. This causeda lot of deaths. Add to that that the US used depleted plutonium shells, which has caused a significant rise in cancer.

Food was abundant, and Saddams welfare state handed out food to all Iraqis.

Actually that's crap. Some elements may be working together but Sunni and Shi'ia eventually would fall into dispute and a civil war would break out.

Reports say that Shi'a and Sunni are working together at the lowest level up till the highest level, from soldier to high priest.

Yes I am sure that the CIA will do everything possible to make sure that civil war happens. However sunni clerics have handed over authority to al-Sadr. And even if there was a civil war, what right would the US have to intervene? Did you fail to see the resemblance between the levee en masse in France in 1793 and the levee en masse in Iraq now?

The UN?
Keep the UN out of this. They already did a bunch of corruption deals with Saddam, and some lightly armed men would not cut it.

No you need helicopters and tanks to kill the people of Iraq, I understand that. But the UNis not there to fight but to police. The US have only trained around 2000 Iraqi cops, despite their responsibility to secure order. They have not taugt the US soldiers not to have men frisk iraqi women, nor that you don't wade into mosques with your boots on. There is criminal stupidity here.

The corruption deals, as you put it, were not to UN personel, but kickbacks to private businessmen. In fact most business men were happy dealing with the Iraqi, in that they were unusually clean, compared to other oil-producing nations.

[Giancarlo]

Somebody seems to be on some kind of medication, and it isn't me. Prozac?

Originally posted by Tripledoc


Unfortunately, for the validity of your argument, the deaths had nothing to do with a lack of food. The deaths were primarily caused by filthy water.

This did not happen in the Kurdish controlled regions and in fact things were better off.

This because the UN sanctions denied the import of chemicals to clean the river water, and the fact that the US deliberatly bombed water cleaning facilities.

No the US was not bombing water cleaning facilities. It bombed chemical plants, as in 1998. And besides Saddam managed to build dozens of palaces and several yachts with the billions he shaved off the Iraq Oil for Food program.

http://www.aijac.org.au/updates/Oct-02/181002.html

"This Update includes three extremely good articles on the question of Iraq, all from the excellent centre-left American political magazine, The New Republic. These three articles tell you almost everything you need to know with regard to the Iraq debate.

First, Robert Kaplan, the distinguished author and columnist argues that case that over-throwing Saddam Hussein has even more of a humanitarian justification than the intervention in Kosovo against Milosevic did. It is certainly the case that Saddam has killed more people.

Next, in an exemplary piece of journalism, Franklin Foer uncovers the myriad ways in which Saddam's Iraq successfully manipulates the Western media to show what it wants. It is particularly interesting to note points in the article that make it clear that this one reason that the claims about the supposed terrible effects of sanctions, which are almost certainly exaggerated, are almost never challenged in the mainstream press. (Note: Some of the methods on show here also have a bearing on Western coverage of the Palestinian areas.)"

You bought into old excuses.

Add to that that the US used depleted plutonium shells, which has caused a significant rise in cancer.

There is actually no conclusive proof for that.

Reports say that Shi'a and Sunni are working together at the lowest level up till the highest level, from soldier to high priest.

Wrong again. It is mostly some minor lower level cooperation. But it won't last.

However sunni clerics have handed over authority to al-Sadr. And even if there was a civil war, what right would the US have to intervene? Did you fail to see the resemblance between the levee en masse in France in 1793 and the levee en masse in Iraq now?

I'm not looking at Europe in the late 1700s, I'm looking at the story right now. And no I see no resemblence. We are in a different era. We are not talking about Kings or what not. We are talking about a country that is going to get elections. Furthermore Al-Sadr is not in any religious authority position. He's not an ayatollah and he holds little religious importance. I think it is important as Robert Baer pointed out on Fox today, that Sistani must understand that Sadr is not helping his cause.

No you need helicopters and tanks to kill the people of Iraq, I understand that.

To kill those who use suicide attacks to try to bring back a deposed dictator. You want the Iraqi people to kill each other. That's your agenda.

But the UNis not there to fight but to police.

Yeah we seen how many times the UN failed. You just don't know how to look at the past now can you?

The US have only trained around 2000 Iraqi cops, despite their responsibility to secure order.

That's highly laughable. Lets try more like 200,000 Iraqi security forces in total.

They have not taugt the US soldiers not to have men frisk iraqi women, nor that you don't wade into mosques with your boots on.

What? What are you trying to say? That made no sense.

The corruption deals, as you put it, were not to UN personel, but kickbacks to private businessmen. In fact most business men were happy dealing with the Iraqi, in that they were unusually clean, compared to other oil-producing nations.

No, the corruption deals go all the way up to Kofi Annan and his son in particular. There was no way Kofi Annan wouldn't know something like that was going on under his watch. And the French had a major hand in it too, somewhere in the range of $100 billion dollars from what I heard.

Your opinion is laughable and false at best.

[Tripledoc]

Originally posted by Giancarlo
You want the Iraqi people to kill each other. That's your agenda.

I resent that statement, and will respond in kind, if you so permit.

En garde.

Your agenda seems to be to protect an increasinlgy unstable position, by screaming for more people to be killed and maimed. You have continously been calling for martial law, court martials, escalation, genocide against the Iraqi people, murder of children, and on and on. Your mind is fixated on violent solutions to advance your twisted political mindset.

It must basicly bound in some sort of sexual inadquacy on your part. Is one of your testicles missing, or are you a repressed homosexual? Did a muslim girl reject your sexual advances? Do you like to swoon over Wagner. Does visions of executions and torture turn you on?

The sad thing is that you are probably in line with the perverts who control US foreign policy.

[Giancarlo]

What's the matter? You can't respond to the rest of my post?

Originally posted by Tripledoc
Your agenda seems to be to protect an increasinlgy unstable position, by screaming for more people to be killed and maimed.

I'm not screaming for more people to be killed. I want to get a deal done with both the Shi'ias and Sunnis because it is in their best interests. You are misstating my views and you are the one who wants the Iraqis to kill each other. I want a resolution. I believe peace is at hand.

You have continously been calling for martial law, court martials, escalation, genocide against the Iraqi people, murder of children, and on and on.

That's some laughable crap. Are you losing your eye sight or are you drinking some kind of alcoholic beverage of some sort too much? I am not calling for martial law, I'm calling for stability with minimal bloodshed. I want Iraq to be ruled by a stable government, a fair government and a government that treats all of its citizens in a fair manner. I'm not for genocide against the Iraqi people, nor am I for the murder of children, you braindead sot. I wanted Saddam removed for those reasons.

Your mind is fixated on violent solutions to advance your twisted political mindset.

Again very laughable. I already proved I'm willing to negoiate a solution to this issue.

It must basicly bound in some sort of sexual inadquacy on your part.

You are the one with the sexual inadequacy. So If I am for staying the course in Iraq, I have this? You are seriously messed up and should consider prozac or some type of medication.

Is one of your testicles missing, or are you a repressed homosexual?

I'm in fact very open about my sexuality. I'm as gay as it comes.

Does visions of executions and torture turn you on?

I have never stated such things. I wanted Saddam removed because he was executing and torturing his own people.

The sad thing is that you are probably in line with the perverts who control US foreign policy.

You are the one who wants millions of people to die world-wide because of leftist arrogance. I want the people in this world saved from arrogance such as your own.

[Tripledoc]

You know your lack of historical knowledge is shocking. It did not occur to you that I was giving the psychological profile of Hitler.
As for responding to what you have transcribed from Fox, I don't see the point.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Tripledoc
You know your lack of historical knowledge is shocking. It did not occur to you that I was giving the psychological profile of Hitler.
As for responding to what you have transcribed from Fox, I don't see the point.

Nice response... what is this? Why should I even bother? I type up a big nice response and I get two sentences out of mr. don't know anything about history here. I mean can't you even spend the time on anything? I wasn't thinking about Hitler. Personally I hate the man. He was a monster like Saddam.

Now YOU SEE PEOPLE WHY I DO NOT EVEN BOTHER TYPING UP LONG RESPONSES ALL THAT OFTEN. Whenever I explain myself, I get responses in the length of two sentences. What a waste of my time.

[Tripledoc]

I set you on ignore now. Ok. Now shut up.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Tripledoc
I set you on ignore now. Ok. Now shut up.

Ugh... why do I even bother?

[Alexander's Horse]

Get off this thread Fez - the adults are talking.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Get off this thread Fez - the adults are talking.

You better run fast then.

[Alexander's Horse]

I'm just imagining Fez joining with my friend the Shiite expert and I for our morning coffee.

I'm sure he'd have a lot to contribute................

[Agathon]

Have you or any member of your family ever been diagnosed syphilitic, Fez?

I'm looking at what you've written and I can't make any sense of it at all.

[Buck Birdseed]

I just listened to the demands of the resistance movement on the radio and they seemed surprisingly reasonable. (Stop to the arrest of resistance members and the release of resistance POWs, fair and open trial for Saddam, freedom to publish the newspaper again.)

[The Mad Viking]

Originally posted by Giancarlo

Speaking from your arse again I see? I posted a poll that was done with more then an adequate sampling.

You're really rich in B.S.. what is wrong with you? You want the US to get defeated? What is the matter with you?

Fez, your "poll", at best, is about 2 months old. Things change very rapidly in Iraq.

Polling in Iraq must be looked at very skeptically.

For whose benefit is the poll being taken?

Can you really expect to get honest answers given, for example, the climate of political fear the Iraqi's lived in under Saddam?

How can you be at all certain that you are getting a representative sample in a place like Iraq? Phone poll?

[Kropotkin]

Did they not include the obvious last demand; "Stop the imperialist ocupation of Palestine!"? Oh gosh, those resistance movement have a lot to learn from the swedish radical left.