9 Americans dead including 4 brutally burned alive and hung!

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by Seeker
WWJD?

What Would Julius Caesar Do in this situation?

Probably something involving crosses. Lots and lots of crosses.

[Gatekeeper]

Well, hell's bells, if God and Cain had simply talked things over about that whole killing Abel thing, maybe we wouldn't been in this mess today.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Since when does contractor necessarialy mean merc?

These "contractors" worked for Blackwater Security proviidng "security training and guard service" which means a private army. The people hired by these security firms are extremely well paid US$100-200K per year and almost always have served in special forces units.

[East Street Trader]

Hard to imagine people behaving so despicably.

Born of humiliated male pride seemingly.

I wonder if the perpetrators fellow Iraqis find it as shocking as do I?

[Guardian]

Originally posted by DataAeolus
I only have this to say: Those folks should be thankful that Americans are not using tactics Nazis did whenever one of their own was killed in an occupied country especially in France.

When the nazis occupied a village, they would put up lists naming local residents who were designated "hostages". They would then announce penalties for various acts of resistance, and the hostages would pay the price if someone resisted anyway.

For instance, if someone was caught attempting to sabotage "German property", they would shoot 3 hostages.

If the sabotage was successful and "German property" was destroyed, they would shoot 6 hostages.

If a German soldier was injured, they would shoot 10 hostages.

If a German soldier was killed, they would shoot 20 hostages.

In the larger cities, they wouldn't bother to make lists. Instead, when they felt they needed to punish the resistance for something, the Gestapo or the SS would suddenly appear out of nowhere, cordon off a street or two, round up a bunch of people who just happened to be in the area and kill them all.

Even with this kind of tactics, the nazis never succeded in putting down the resistance in the coutries they occupied.

They were actually a lot nicer in Denmark and Norway, but our people never stopped resisting either.

[Guardian]

Originally posted by Azazel

Again, why you think you're better than others? you elitist *****.

I think I see your point.

The thing is, you never know how you would act under fire unless you've actually been there. Most of us have not, and so we should be careful about judging others, even if their actions do seem "barbaric" to an outsider.

[The Mad Viking]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Yup, the people who used to be oppressed sidle up to you. In this case thats the majority.

as for the kurds liking us, i really suggest you listen to folks who have actually been in Iraq.

So stupid.

I suggest you listen to history.

Go read about the US occupation of Lebanon, ca. 1985.

You know, the one where the marine HQ was blown up by people who liked you.

[The Mad Viking]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Of course the US Marines did not occupy Lebanon, they occupied Beirut only, and it was only West Beirut at that, IIRC. You really should study some history before telling people who know history better than you what we have or havent learned.

Riiiiight.

Checks atlas.

Hmmm, west beirut does seem to be in Lebanon.

[The Mad Viking]

Originally posted by Spiffor

An autopsy is obviously comparable with attaching bodies on a car and pulling them, or hanging the bodies to a bridge while dancing

Obviously not. But it is a commonplace accepted mutilation of dead bodies. Is it not?

Do the people who do the mutilation mourn over the dead body they mutilate?

No.

Do the people who do the mutilation GET PAID to mutilate the body?

Yes.

But its different, you are saying.

What, the autopsy will bring the body back to life?

Dead is dead.

[Dinner]

Al Fallujah was a ba'athist stronghold before the war and it continues to be one to this day. These guys lived high on the hog off of the sweat and suffering of the people Saddam oppressed and now they have found out that they will no longer be the favored child in the new Iraq. Naturally, they are unhappy about this turn of events.

In my opinion the best why to deal with this is to conduct cordon and search opperations of the entire city. Every house, every shop, every mosque, every warehouse, every place these rats might be ferrating away their weapons. Then you arrest everyone who owns more then the one AK-47 per household that is allowed by law.

You'd had to surround the city and then use soldiers to divided the city into managable cantonments. No movement would be allowed from one cantonment to another and then the EVERYTHING in each cantonment is searched in turn. Such a thorough search is the best way to disarm the populace and to find those who are stockpilling weapons. The people who are arrested are then questioned and threatened so that some of them will begin to squeel on their friends and that is how we would get to the big cheeses. We'd keep squeezing the little fish until we catch the big fish.

After Al Fallujah I'd hit up Samarra then Tikrit then Ramadi.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by The Mad Viking
But its different, you are saying.

Indeed it is different, as it serves a purpose. In the case of a crime, it can lead to arrest the killer. In the case of a disease outbreak, it can help to find anf fight the disease. In the case of autopsies for medicine students, it helps them become better doctors, with a better understanding of the human body.

Yes, it is very different from mutilating a body in order to humiliate and to be overjoyed

[The Mad Viking]

Originally posted by DataAeolus
I only have this to say: Those folks should be thankful that Americans are not using tactics Nazis did whenever one of their own was killed in an occupied country especially in France.

I'm sure their gratitude knows no bounds.

The American occupiers are not as bad as the Nazi's!

[The Mad Viking]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Indeed it is different, as it serves a purpose. In the case of a crime, it can lead to arrest the killer. In the case of a disease outbreak, it can help to find anf fight the disease. In the case of autopsies for medicine students, it helps them become better doctors, with a better understanding of the human body.

Yes, it is very different from mutilating a body in order to humiliate and to be overjoyed

All purposes that are subjective values.

Who cares? The death was the will of God, and you are desecrating the body, which is an affront to God.

I don't personally agree, but I can understand that there are people who do.

If you look at the reaction to the mutilation, and consider that was the intent, I think you have a hard time suggesting that it did not serve a purpose.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by The Mad Viking


Obviously not. But it is a commonplace accepted mutilation of dead bodies. Is it not?

Do the people who do the mutilation mourn over the dead body they mutilate?

No.

Do the people who do the mutilation GET PAID to mutilate the body?

Yes.

But its different, you are saying.

What, the autopsy will bring the body back to life?

Dead is dead.

Man, you are so full of yourself. Any reasonable person can distinguish between the legitimacy of authorized autopsies, and organ donations from that of inhumane, callous body mutilation.

[Tripledoc]

Published on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 by CommonDreams.org
Fallujah - A Shooting Too Far?
by Felicity Arbuthnot

The shooting of protesters outside a school at Fallujah, approximately 30 miles west of Baghdad - where US troops were apparently billeted - by US troops reportedly from the 1st Battalion of 325th Airborne Infantry Division of the 82nd Airborne Division, may be an outrage too far and return to haunt the US and UK troops. Iraq is a country where historical memory is immediate and like Ireland, perceived or actual injustices never fade.

Out of a crowd of two hundred, it seems seventy five were injured and thirteen to fifteen killed - nearly half maimed or dead.

Fallujah was seized by the British under General Stanley Maude on 19th March 1917. He is buried in Baghdad's Rashid Cemetery. More recently Fallujah was provided by the UK, in the 1980's with a fourteen million £ chemical factory to produce chlorine and phenol, named the Tariq plant. The deal was allegedly concealed from Parliament by the then Trade Minister, Sir Paul Channon.

When the Gulf war disrupted production at the Fallujah plant, Iraq successfully claimed three hundred thousand pounds compensation from the UK government"s Export Credit Guarantee Department. However, later Tariq became subject of UN weapons Inspector"s (UNSCOM) scrutiny and accused of producing chemical weapons, was destroyed.

Fallujah is seared into Iraq's collective psyche as completely as the attack on the Ameriyah civilian air raid shelter, bombed by US planes during the Gulf war. Also in 1991, the market in Fallujah was bombed, reportedly by US planes flying very low. Other reports say the UK planes were also involved. When residents ran to help the injured and seek the dead, in a familiar pattern, the planes returned and bombed the rescuers.

Former US Attorney General Ramsey Clark visited shortly after and reported at least two hundred civilian deaths and a stunning five hundred injured.

The attacks also leveled an Egyptian owned hotel and a row of modern, concrete five and six story apartments with a further (estimated at the time) two hundred dead. Military spokespersons later said they were aiming for a bridge, but Human Rights Watch reported that: "All buildings for four hundred meters on either side of the street - houses and market, were flattened."

"The term 'collateral damage' is inapplicable", says Ramsey Clark, pointing out that the attacks were in broad daylight, when much of the area would have been at its most populated. He states that attacks on civilians were stated by the military (then as now) were to "demoralize".

To visit Fallujah is to be shamed - and stoned. The only place in Iraq I have ever experienced hostility. It is a hostility easy to understand. A tour of the re-established market - or anywhere else, reveals traders with amputated limbs who survived the attack - and not a person, seemingly, who has not lost one or more of their family.

The Tariq plant at Fallujah was one of the stated reasons for the slaughter and invasion of Gulf War Two. "Iraq had embedded key portions of its chemical weapons infrastructure" Colin Powell is reported as saying, with Prime Minister Blair faithfully repeating the allegation last Autumn. (How they love that "embedded" word, does the Pentagon/State Department not have a Thesaurus?)

I visited the plant in 1999 and another cited chemical weapon plant at Al Doura in a suburb of Baghdad. Both had been completely trashed by UNSCOM. Days before Colin Powell and Tony Blair made their allegation, Count Hans von Sponeck, a former UN Assistant Secretary General and UN Co-ordinator in Iraq, visited both plants with a crew from German state television. He told this writer: "They are in the same trashed state as when you and I visited in 1999. There is one difference: the undergrowth is higher."

"Hearts and minds" are being lost in Iraq with stunning speed. This further slaughter by an unwelcome, invading force, of a "liberated" crowd, may, I predict, mark the beginning of the end for the "coalition." "They stole our oil, now they are killing our people', said one grieving relative.

Writing this, I remembered the word on the street in Iraq, when I was there little over a month ago. It was encapsulated by a western educated Iraqi graduate of the Sorbonne, an intellectual who speaks numerous languages, a true international. "Let them come", she said "we have been burying invaders for centuries - and we have plenty of spaces next to General Maude."

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0429-11.htm