Do you believe the Islamist terrorists' goal is to conquer the world?

[Pax]

Okay,
I admit I'm stupid and ill-informed. I guess the best thing to fight bomb police fight bomb police.
At what point will peace be achieved.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Pax Africanus
I guess the best thing to fight bomb police fight bomb police.

What? I am a bit confused with that statment.

[DinoDoc]

Well I liked your idea about talking with Al- Qaeda. I hope they make the offer so we can "talk with" thier leadership in person.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Well I liked your idea about talking with Al- Qaeda. I hope they make the offer so we can "talk with" thier leadership in person.

Ohhhh... Pax wanted me to do something... I'll be the head of the team that will talk.

*tucks 9MM underneath his shirt*

Sure I'll talk with Bin Laden.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Pax Africanus
Okay,
I admit I'm stupid and ill-informed. I guess the best thing to fight bomb police fight bomb police.
At what point will peace be achieved.

When those that only know terror are destroyed or brought to justice. When the nations of the world say "Enough" and truly take united action . When muslim countries stop funding schools of religious bigotry and start embracing religious tolerence.

BTW, I didn't call you stupid. Many people are ill-informed on the fundmentalist movement...often confusing it with the different type goals that a group like the PLO have. Both are terrorist to be sure, but of quite different kinds.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Giancarlo

*tucks 9MM underneath his shirt*

Sure I'll talk with Bin Laden.

godspeed.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by PLATO


Start reading the evidence of al-Qaeda that has been found and then start reading what the terrorist are saying. Those are facts. This one doesn't fit into your "let's all be at peace and if we are not then it's the US fault" standard argument.

I agree.

Somebody needs to find that world domination map that was posted on here about a year ago. It shows the master plan of taking out each country one by one.

[Pax]

Yes, godspeed!

Once again, we don't have to talk with AQ itself.

I'm saying talk in the sense of coming to terms with Arab people. This conflict has been going on in one or another since the start of Islam. It's a very complex situation. It can be solved only through negotiation, capitulation, or genocide. If anyone has a better way then let's hear it. Killing OSL personally won't work. It's not OSL that is the problem. It's people who share his same ideas. killing all of the people who share his ideas won't work either because it only creates the impression that they were right in the first place. Bombngs in Madrid, NYC, and elsewhere make us all mad and angry. We want to do something. I think the first thing to do is try understanding and working things out with eachother.

I firmly believe that opinion of fundamentalists will not be changed by U.S. troops patrolling the streets of Baghdad. If anything it makes for more terrorists. The idea that you recommit your forces only agitates the problem.

I'm positive that most of the people on this site are a lot smarter than me. So give me a brilliant solution that does not involve war.

[Giancarlo]

So let me ask... these terrorist groups speak for the arab people? What needs to happen is the arab people need to understand these terrorists are doing nothing to further their ownselves. Understanding and working things out? With who exactly? The Arab people is a general statement. For a fact, most of them aren't doing anything to the US. It is the terrorists who did 9/11. A minority of the people. You cannot deal or talk with them. They only want to kill westerners. There is no other stance on that issue. That's a fact. Ask the Israelis this.. like Sirot or any of the others. I also firmly believe talking with the terrorists will not change the opinion of fundamentalists.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Pax Africanus
I firmly believe that opinion of fundamentalists will not be changed by U.S. troops patrolling the streets of Baghdad.

Of course not. The goal is not to force things, but to create an enlightened environment where people can make informed and free decisions. In most muslim countries this is not the case. If we do our thing right in Iraq then the populace can make informed choices.

The fundamentalist get their power from two sources:

1.) Well financed despotic religious thought and,

2.) underdeveloped economic opportunity due to #1 causing limited educational exposure.

The opportunity of Iraq is to put into place a system that will allow people to have the ability to become better informed and then have the ability to act upon it through a democratic process.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Pax Africanus
I firmly believe that opinion of fundamentalists will not be changed by U.S. troops patrolling the streets of Baghdad. If anything it makes for more terrorists. The idea that you recommit your forces only agitates the problem.

The US understands this actually. That's why the June handoff to the Iraqis is extremly important. It changes the hands of control back into the Iraqis hands. The US forces are mostly going to be moved out of the cities and into remote bases around the cities, where they won't be seen so much. They will be available as needed.

So give me a brilliant solution that does not involve war.

People like Bin Laden only understand force. You can't negotiate with someone like that. You either kill him or capture him. Sorry that's the way the world works.

Of course solving root problems is needed but force is sometimes necessary.

It's like the crime waves that hit America in the 80s. One camp was saying, "we need more police force and harsh jail time and that will solve the problem." The other camp would say, "no no, we need to solve the social problems and that will solve the problem."

The answer was a combination of both. You needed the force to relieve the pressure off of the neighboorhoods from gangs and drugs. That gave them breathing room to get the social programs and economic development in place that helped keep problems away. It wasn't perfect but the crime situation compared to then and now is like night and day.

The same combined tactics philosophy should be applied to terrorism. Eurocoms have said this week that they are committed to the social changes, meanwhile the US is going to keep whooping terrorist b1tch azz.

[Pax]

If the U.K. can talk with Sinn Fein
If the Spaniards can talk with the ETA
and etc.
Then someone can communicate with AQ.
The point of fact is that Americans in general want cheap oil/gas and we don't want our property or persons subject to terrorists attacks. That's the minimum. I'm sure that i smart guy like you can figure out how this can be accomplished with as little bloodshed as possible. Someone already pointed out that allowing the Arabs to establish their caliphate for example would take a lot of the focus off the western world. In fact, the attempt to get all of the different mslim governments to yield authority would be a battle in itself. I would much rather have muslims fighting eachother for control Cairo and Baghdad that fighting me for control of it.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Pax Africanus
Yes, godspeed!

Once again, we don't have to talk with AQ itself.

I'm saying talk in the sense of coming to terms with Arab people. This conflict has been going on in one or another since the start of Islam. It's a very complex situation. It can be solved only through negotiation, capitulation, or genocide. If anyone has a better way then let's hear it. Killing OSL personally won't work. It's not OSL that is the problem. It's people who share his same ideas. killing all of the people who share his ideas won't work either because it only creates the impression that they were right in the first place. Bombngs in Madrid, NYC, and elsewhere make us all mad and angry. We want to do something. I think the first thing to do is try understanding and working things out with eachother.

I firmly believe that opinion of fundamentalists will not be changed by U.S. troops patrolling the streets of Baghdad. If anything it makes for more terrorists. The idea that you recommit your forces only agitates the problem.

I'm positive that most of the people on this site are a lot smarter than me. So give me a brilliant solution that does not involve war.

I think that if the growing tide of zenophobia in the middle east is to be stemmed without violence most of the dialogue will have to come from within the muslim community. History will prove my point, that when societies are able to make such changes without (much) bloodshed the motivation for the change comes from within.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Pax Africanus
If the Spaniards can talk with the ETA

They don't. In fact banned Batasuna, the political wing of ETA.

Then someone can communicate with AQ.
The point of fact is that Americans in general want cheap oil/gas and we don't want our property or persons subject to terrorists attacks. That's the minimum. I'm sure that i smart guy like you can figure out how this can be accomplished without as little blooshed as possible. Someone already pointed out that allowing the Arabs to establish their caliphate for example would take a lot of the focus off the western world. In fact, the attempt to get all of the different mslim governments to yield authority would be a battle in itself. I would much rather have muslims fighting eachother for control Cairo and Baghdad that fighting me for control of it.

I am not up for a surrender to Al Qaeda. We must go out there and kill them all. I am sorry but they only want to kill westerners. They will not stop with singing cumbaya. That doesn't work in the real world.

[Ted Striker]

True

I think that if the Iranian youth ever emerges to take power, they could be the influential change from within that you are referring to Doc.