Young, fresh, ambitious, in massive debt

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Well, I happen to believe it

I strongly dislike the extreme individualism in the US, where property is such a be-all end-all. It makes the US terrible when it comes to public service, things as basic as a decent public transportation for those who can't afford a car, decent public housing for the very many people who can't afford a house (this includes plenty of middle class people who have to be indebted for the rest of their lives), and a decent public education that is as good as private ed.

Well, I never owned a car until last year (I'm 43 years old) and I have managed to survive by using public transportation and / or walking. My college debt was $2500 total, though I worked 30-40 hours a week throughout that time and went to a fairly inexpensive state university. I bought a house because it made good financial sense and improved my lifestyle. Now I have no debts and a net worth of about $500,000 despite making less than $50,000 a year. Good financial management is more important than salary.

[Pekka]

It is brutal . We don't care about our students, it's a fact. I mean, even prisoners get more money if they work. And they get to study too, so I'd say students are in a bad situation. I mean 60 euros AFTER rent though. But that's what you have to pay your bills (meaning you can't have bills), food, everything. And it's not like my situation is special, almost all I know is in the same situation. NO ONE wants debt from the people I know and everyone is angry about it too.

And then they're trying to take the current benefits away too. It suits the politicians who had better support themselves, lower prices, and support that was closer to up to date than it is now, lower rent costs.. it suits them to cut it all down now. 'We made it fine'.. well yeah you did because the situation is not the same anymore!

Plus every now and then I get those middle aged Punks saying to me 'you spend all that money to beer and booze'. Those people I just want to kill. I haven't had alcohol this year, last time I tasted alcohol was new years eve. So there.

Don't get a loan while you're in Uni. Just like everything else, the conditions change during the years. What is promised now doesn't hold when you're graduating necessarily. Do not get any debt. Just don't.

Work for your dad when you can, and don't pay taxes for it. Because then they will tax you even more and take your support away. They will rape you, so just make every penny you can and don't tell anyone about it.

You know even if you paid all the taxes doing a side job, you know you won't see a penny from it in your support. And you know they won't raise the support, even though they promised. Minister Karpela promised, but hey she's a ***** who says anything to get support and votes, once that's over with you're yesterdays news. Don't support the system. Graduate and get the hell out of here .

[Pekka]

And even more, they say 'take loan! It's not that bad, you get a good deal!'. My ass, you don't know if you can get a job or not when you graduate. People just graduate to unemplyoment line right now. So forget about that, play safe, don't get any debt at all and look out for yourself, because no one else is doing that. Fat pigs just like to pleasure themselves so no shame in little selfish thinking here.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Sikander
Well, I never owned a car until last year (I'm 43 years old) and I have managed to survive by using public transportation and / or walking. My college debt was $2500 total, though I worked 30-40 hours a week throughout that time and went to a fairly inexpensive state university. I bought a house because it made good financial sense and improved my lifestyle. Now I have no debts and a net worth of about $500,000 despite making less than $50,000 a year. Good financial management is more important than salary.

Good for you. I hope you sometimes get to explain the yung'uns how to do it.

[Heavy and Happy]

Yeah, there's no way I'm taking no stinking loans. But that won't be a problem since "Contant Oy" are hounding me for those 1000euros I owe. My credit rating is totally ruined. I think the new law is that it takes 3 years after you've payed yourself clean to even get a small loan. I'll just work the black job market like everyone else until I can emigrate somewhere proper, like the USA.

My main problem is that I have a big apartment and stupendous rent. I mean, I could house a proper family in this monstrosity for petes sake! As soon as I make some serious money I'm going to have to pay for rent and electricity for myself. A half-time job is utterly useless since I'd be making something like 50euros.

This country's social structure is beyond lame. Lying hypocritical ministers promising much and delivering SQUAT.

[Pekka]

Exactly. Well if they would at least keep the benefits that are already too little instead of taking them away too.

It's the ultimate paradox in here. They take away the benefits so you would graduate faster, not realizing that it takes even more time to graduate because well.. you have to eat every now and then. I mean look at us greedy bastards.

What we should have done is to buy houses, and then rent it to each other. I mean our parents, couldn't be in our names. That way we could have had a steady income.

It depends where you go to Uni. If you go to Helsinki, good luck your support won't cover the rent. Then you actually end up owing money, and think about the food and all that as an EXTRA to that, but you can't make money and pay taxes because you lose the support.

Ultimate paradox, it's crap, that's what it is.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Japher
Getting and education and going $20,000 into debt is not that bad when you look at the whole spreadsheet and not just one column. Student loans sit aroun 4%, which is awesome, so most graduates take their time in paying it off even though they make $52,000/year!

What kind of fresh grads with an undergrad degree makes that kind of money?

[Pekka]

You have to be grad student, and with 20 years experience to make that kind of money That's why you don't want to get loan here in the first place, because the only place that doesn't give BS promises is the bank that says YOU PAY BACK. They keep their word.

I'm angry again.. I should just go sleeping or something.

[Bosh]

Hmmmm, sounds like articles I've read about Korean youth credit card debts, they're the worst in the world IIRC you have people jumping off bridges and whoring themselves out because they wracked up huge debts in college (part time jobs pay horrifically badly here) and then not being able to get a job in one of the big five conglomerates after graduation after running up a big debt in college (often while not even having a job and usuing one credit card to pay off another).

As for me I'm about $20,000 in the hole from my BA (would've saved money by going public, but Maine public schools sucked and I didn't want to get hit by out of state fee at another public school when I'd gotten into a First-Tier liberal arts school).

But right now my housing is free, my healthcare is under $3 per doctors visit (I'm officially my boss in an American mask or something when I go to the doctor, so I pay no insurance), I pay only 5% of my income in taxes and during the week I cook all my own food. So basically, I can blow through a whole lot of cash on the weekends, not get paid all that much and still save nearly half of what I make. Works out well, especially considering that my college debt is ridiculously subsidized.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Good for you. I hope you sometimes get to explain the yung'uns how to do it.

I have had two loans in my life, a $2500 student loan and a $110,000 mortgage. Other than that it has been cash or do without. I was poor as a kid, so didn't develop a lot of bad spending habits. The reason I never had a car is because I couldn't afford one at first, and later wasn't in the habit of spending so much money on something that I didn't need. Ditto cable television or anything more than a very basic phone service. I try to keep recurring costs to an absolute minimum. Do this for a decade or two and you end up being pretty comfortable, even in an expensive town like Boulder.

To be fair I don't have any kids, which is a huge difference between me and some of my friends. Relationships can also be pretty expensive. It's not just the dating that adds up (if you pay for everything especially), but afterward when you decide to make a go of it with someone. You need to either find someone who has the same attitude about money that you do, or someone who can at least pay their way where they are profligate. I did well with this all the way along. Most of the women I have lived with have been more or less like me, not huge consumers or big believers in material things being a source of happiness.

My current girlfriend is a bit profligate, but she also makes about $100,000 a year so she can afford to be. I still end up loaning her money from time to time, but because of my influence she has been putting away 20% of her income for retirement. We should be fine when we retire, and hopefully I'll have the option of retiring a bit early if I choose to. I'm still about half a million away from being completely comfortable with that, though the closer to official retirement age I get (and the pensions I'll get then) the less cushion I'll need.

[Rogan Josh]

I don't really understand the willingness to have debt in the form of a property mortgage but the unwillingness to incur debt for an education. People seem quite happy to be $100k in debt to buy their house but balk at being $20k in debt to get a decent education. I understand that a martgage is cheaper than renting, so being in debt to buy your home is actually a saving, but the same is true with a good education because your earning potential is higher.

If you want to have an education, someone has to pay for it. Why shouldn't it be you?

[Drake Tungsten]

I feel bad for you suckers that had to pay for school...

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh
I don't really understand the willingness to have debt in the form of a property mortgage but the unwillingness to incur debt for an education. People seem quite happy to be $100k in debt to buy their house but balk at being $20k in debt to get a decent education. I understand that a martgage is cheaper than renting, so being in debt to buy your home is actually a saving, but the same is true with a good education because your earning potential is higher.

If you want to have an education, someone has to pay for it. Why shouldn't it be you?

People getting fine arts degrees might be wise to avoid debt in the process.

[Pekka]

I just disagree with the whole idea of getting debt when you study. I mean if you have to do it, then there's no other options but if you can avoid it at any costs, I recommend to do that.

Why? Like I said earlier, when you graduate, that's when you need the money the most. You need to get a place to yourself, and you might not have any capital or savings of your own. So you would be getting a new loan for that most likely, and having student loans is not a good idea during that time. You need maximum amount of money at your own use right then, if you want to make it even rather sooner than later. I see debt as limiting factor to your freedom. You have responsibility to that debt, and it limits your options.

That's why I rather take the debt I really need like for a house instead of having multiple loans on many things that weren't absolutely freaking necessary. It will be easier later on... Student loan is often considered like.. how should I say it.. out of sight, out of mind kind of thing.

Personally I just don't feel comfortable owning anyone anything. It makes me feel restricted, and I likes me freedom.

[Az]

I must admit, that my money is still kiddy money. I make no money whatsoever ( except university kids tuition grants, that are some 1000 USD a month). I don't pay for my education. I am staying with my parents. Generally, I don't mind this, at all. But soon, oh so very soon, I'll be in the army, making a whopping 200 USD a month. Then, the wild life will begin.