Young, fresh, ambitious, in massive debt

[Kontiki]

Re: Re: Young, fresh, ambitious, in massive debt

Originally posted by Kidicious

Originally posted by GePap
A minor summary for the lazy: Young people in the US leave college with an average debt of 20k, and are likely never to be out of debt again once they get low paying beginning jobs, a mortage, health care costs and so forth.

Just another reason why the economic growth of the last 3 decades or so is unsustainable.

Again, I return to what should be considered debt. Is it simply an obligation to pay something? In that case, no one is ever out of debt - housing costs, health care costs, the need to buy food - these things always exist. If you look at net debt, then it shouldn't be that hard for the majority of people to get into a positive situation.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
"1. The private universities in the US are generally better than the public ones - in the case of the more prestigious universities, MUCH better."

The difference in quality is often over-exaggerated however, and even in the case of the Ivy Leauge schools, there isn't a right for the government to provide that; if you want to go to a place like that you can fund the education yourself.

Why did I say there was? I was just disputing Spiffor's claim that private universities sucked.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Kucinich
Why did I say there was? I was just disputing Spiffor's claim that private universities sucked.

This was a misunderstanding. I never claimed private universities sucked. At the contrary, the fact that top education is only provided by private university is a big problem I have with your educaiton system.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel


Actually, the top flaship schools compare quite favorably with the top private schools, in most fields anyway. You can find crappy directional schools, but you can just as easily find crappy private schools, the difference is that the crappy private schools will bleed you like they're top schools.

Uh, no. UVA is one of the best public universities in the country, but it simply doesn't compare to Harvard or MIT.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Spiffor
This was a misunderstanding. I never claimed private universities sucked. At the contrary, the fact that top education is only provided by private university is a big problem I have with your educaiton system.

Would you rather no top education be provided at all?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Did these massive debts at least cover your living expenses

Yes.

the fact that top education is only provided by private university is a big problem I have with your educaiton system.

Why? They have more money than private universities to provide much better educational oppertunities. It doesn't mean that public universities aren't good either, but because they have to charge less (and get less alumni money), naturally their education won't be as good.

[Spiffor]

I think taxes are here to allow some public universities to provide the best education possible, for whomever is able to sustain it.

I know it is hard for you two to swallow, the idea that taxes can pay for education

[Kuciwalker]

Plus, the selection even for private universities is (generally - yes there are exceptions, but that's what they are, exception) merit-based. Especially given the need-blind application process a lot of them are getting.

Almost anyone who can get into one of those top private colleges will find a way to fund it.

[Japher]

Again, I return to what should be considered debt. Is it simply an obligation to pay something?

That's a liability, and yes it can be considered debt.

In that case, no one is ever out of debt - housing costs, health care costs, the need to buy food - these things always exist.

True, but that doesn't put you in debt if your income is unable to pay for this.

If you look at net debt, then it shouldn't be that hard for the majority of people to get into a positive situation.

True.

Me, I guess there is really two was to look at debt.

1) You earn less in a year than your yearly expenses. This is how most people handle/address their cash flows and this in turn effects their spending habits that leads them to the realization of debt. EARNing money requires someone else to be giving it to you, which is not in your control. The minute some is laid off, a tragedy strikes the familly, etc... earnings may cease to exist, and all of a sudden, BAM!, their yearly expenses out weight their yearly income. Thus, now they say, they are in debt.

2) Your Assets are worth less than you Liabilities, or you make less from your Net Worth than you spend. MAKEing money does not require anyone else; bank, employeer, etc... If you get laid off, no biggy, your covered. This is how I look at debt, because it really says you owe more than your worth, and this is why a home is a liability.

If people looked at their expenses and spending habits per definition 2 they would never spend more than they can afford, and will have no problem with becoming wealthy. Granted I make a decent income, but for my area I am in the bottom decile of my braket, and the cost of living here sucks. However, by looking at my expenses from a "Net Worth" point of few instead of an "income" point of view I feel that I am slowly hedging my way out of lower middle class....

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Kucinich
Uh, no. UVA is one of the best public universities in the country, but it simply doesn't compare to Harvard or MIT.

I'm looking at the big picture. Sure the top 3 schools in nearly every field are private. However, after that its pretty even public vs. private. Just a quick glance at the top 50 in various fields according to US news will show you that and Michigan, cal, UCLA, UVA compare very favorably in most areas with the top private schools. Though I am a bit biased, I earned degrees at 2 flagships and my wife is mid-way through a phd at a 3rd.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I think taxes are here to allow some public universities to provide the best education possible, for whomever is able to sustain it.

There is NO WAY that any public university could match the money that a Harvard gets. If it did so, then many less public universities would exist, especially because higher tax rates are not very popular. Either that or the rest of the public universities in the state would be severly underfunded to only have one good one (many states have more than one good university).

Almost anyone who can get into one of those top private colleges will find a way to fund it.

Yep... almost 50% of admitted students at Princeton get a full ride.

[Bosh]

Sure the top 3 schools in nearly every field are private.

Depends what you mean by top. I certainly wouldn't want to go to a huge "top" school and pay good money to get taught by grad students etc...

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Boshko

Depends what you mean by top. I certainly wouldn't want to go to a huge "top" school and pay good money to get taught by grad students etc...

well, that's a factor of course. I was using the Us News as a basis, as that seems (unfortunately) to be the standard. I hate grad student instructors as well, luckily I've only had them for intro classes at undergrad. Some big schools just farm out the work to their ta's, ridiculous.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Almost anyone who can get into one of those top private colleges will find a way to fund it.

Yep... almost 50% of admitted students at Princeton get a full ride.

Wow, the experience of ONE university in the system with a huge endowment..means ****. I went to a top 20 school, and I knew few people getting a free ride, few people whom their parents could pay the whole way. IN fact, all the people I knew had substantial loans- of course, being a top 20 university and haviong a huge endowment ARE NOT the same thing.

As for quality- how good your education is I would say is absed on 4 things- 1. the resources made available to you, such as facilities, research materials and so forth 2. the structure of the program you are in 3.the quality of your colleges 4. the Quality of your prefessors.

The selectiveness of ivy leagues helps with #3, and their greater resources with the toher three BUT that is only in general- in reality though, it is impossible to say any one individual will definitely get a better education in one location over another-if the guy who goes to community college gets a young but utterly brilliant and motivated professor he might get a far better education that some studwent in an aIvy with a famous but past his prime and cynical lecturer.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Kontiki
Spot on. IMO, you have to keep the mindset that if need be, you dump the place and pull your money out. In the meantime, you at least have something to show for your monthy housing costs in the form of built up equity. Rent is just flushing money down the drain.

Depends on the interest rate and length of payment period, you end up paying for multiple houses at the end.