Riots in Kosovo. Albanians attack Greek peacekeepers

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by player1
If only they could protect the Serbs after they occupied a Kosovo...

To that effect, we should have understood that the UCK was nothing more than an extremist terrorist group, instead of taking them for liberators at the beginning, and have them frame the postwar policial situation of Kosovo

[player1]

Originally posted by Spiffor

So, I guess you think NATO and UN should have never attempted to protect the Albanians of Kosovo?

doulbe standards

When UCK began as terrorist movment (mostly attacking Serbian civilians), and Serbs responded militray, it was Serbs fault.

But, if something similar happens in Israel, then it's completly different thing.


EDIT:
Only after the bombs felt Albanians started massivly to leave Kosovo.

So, if there was a will, thing could have been solved witout bombings.

[Spiffor]

Player1:
I actually agree with you. The situation was bad in Kosovo before the bombings, but it suddenly became worse as the bombings begun. I was against the war in Kosovo, and I still am (although I strongly support the idea of having peacekeepers there).

The fact that the West treated the UCK as a valid discussion partner, and then as a valid military partner, is extremely wrong, and is one of the keys to the Kosovo failure.

Don't get me wrong: I have nothing against the idea that Kosovo should be autonomous from Belgrade. The expectations of the Albanian population of Kosovo are obviously different from the expectations of the Serbs in Serbia. I don't think a centralized rule could really help.
But an autonomous Kosovo requires real democrats at the helm, and not extremists and mafiosis pulling the strings

[Ned]

Originally posted by Spiffor

So, I guess you think NATO and UN should have never attempted to protect the Albanians of Kosovo?

I am leaning heavily in that direction. I think we were lied to by Clark, Albright and Blair for some reason. I am now prepared to believe the other side's contentions that Serbia was battling the KLA, not conducting genocide.

[Ned]

Originally posted by player1
After this events, I don't see a future for Serbs (and other non-Albanians) in Kosovo.

Current plan, promoted by UN proved to be failure.
Minorities at Kosovo don't have a chance to live a decent life.

I can only hope if areas mostly populated by non-Albanians could get some sort of automony, so they could live a normal life.

But, I doubt that could happen. There is too much pride in US and Europe countries to admit that they are wrong.

Not really. This is one American who is listening.

[player1]

Thanks!

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Ned
NATO and UN presence are the cause of the current violence because it enables the Albanians.

That is irrational. Currently NATO and UN try to control things. Without them violence between the groups would be much more extreme, with much worse consequences especially for the Serb minority.

[East Street Trader]

There are no quick fixes.

Despite relatively few of them living there Serbs regard Kosovo as their heartland, for historical reasons.

If Albania was expanded to take in Kosovo - the lid would come off, in the short term, and for the long term, another bitter grievance would have been added to the mountain that already exist.

There is only one thing to do for now. The peacekeeping troops stay indefinately with the world (or those within it willing to help out) doing its best to share the burden. And the neighbours of these people must take every opportunity to emphasise to individuals and to representative groups or institutions that the world will not tolerate endless squabbling and that the squabbling will prevent anyone from improving their lot.

I don't know whether it will take one century for these simple messages to get home or two or more. But that is what requires to be done.

As the Kosovan people indulge in extensive smuggling and other crime as well as race riots the international community must tackle crime in Kosovo as well as more straightforward peace-keeping.

And while this is being done no one gets to take sides.

The people have been separating out into more and more segregated groups. Majority groups have been pressurising minority groups to clear out and minority groups have been retreating into ghettos the better to resist. That seems to be what happens in such cases.

The peace-keeping forces must strive to protect everyone, wherever they are but, being realistic I doubt they will manage to do more than to slow the process down a bit and make the separating out a bit less bloody.

When I lived in Cyprus at the beginning of that process in that country, the British - and afterwards the UN - forces used to paint a line through each town delineating where the Greek Cypriot quarter ended and the Turkish Cypriot quarter began. And there were curfews and patrols and "demilitarised zones" and so on. But, in the end, each side withdrew to their own portion of the island.

Maybe this is something that just has to happen in the long story of how these things eventually resolve themselves?

Meanwhile we must stick to the main thing - just staunchly to refuse to take sides.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Could be cuz, try as they might, they still haven't found evidence that the Serbs massacred any Albanians.

I suppose that mass graves don't count. They also still haven't found evicence of Soviet massacres of Polish officers and Russian Kulaks either, right?

[Datajack Franit]

I think we in the US were given a lot of BS about Kosovo

I am afraid to say that this is becoming kinda of a silly excuse for the US messing around and doubling troubles worldwide- I'm not antiamerican (not AT ALL) but just think what kind of opinion people in Europe have about the US after this disaster

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit



I am afraid to say that this is becoming kinda of a silly excuse for the US messing around and doubling troubles worldwide- I'm not antiamerican (not AT ALL) but just think what kind of opinion people in Europe have about the US after this disaster

Europe was completely blameless in the affair.

[VetLegion]

East Street Trader:

Serb, Croat and ethnic albanian are locked in a bitterness so deep that they just are not going to get on together.

Economic well being is the only cure for this. If the region can get a decent economy going, self interest will bring about co-operation. And maybe a few hands will be less idle.

Countries of ex Yugoslavia were economically extremely dependant on each other and there was huge economic exchange between them. This however did not stop the war(s).

Ned:

May I speculate that your views changed since you have been reading emperors-clothes.com (you linked to it in one of your posts)?

That site is totaly worthless and you should not believe anything you read there.

[VetLegion]

And some things about Kosovo you may not understand. Albanians were a majority there for decades and yet somwhere about 100% of policemen in the region were Serbian. How do you people explain that?

Or the fact that Kosovo had an autonomy in Yugoslavia, under Tito, however Milosevic revoked that autonomy in 1989 (or so).

In Yugoslavia you had an Albanian majority in Kosovo demanding more and more rights Serbs weren't willing to give.

I am only mentioning this because people seem to have distorted perception about who bossed who around in Kosovo for last 50 years. Serbs bossed everyone else and basta.

[VetLegion]

Oh yeah, paiktis you forgot to mention Serbs burnt the mosques in Belgrade and Nis.

[Dinner]

The long term solution is to redraw the boundries so that ethnic groups all more or less reside in the "right" countries. Of course the UN will do its damnedest to prevent that out of fear it will spark wars. One thing is clear though and that is the current artifical status of Kosovo and Bosnia won't last without outside armies forcing them to work together.