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Why Government Grows

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  • Why Government Grows

    First, many politicians on both "sides" engage in this disgusting tactic, but the recent Bush ads - from alleged conservatives no less - have stuck in my mind. Bush is accusing Kerry of voting against body armor for US troops, expanded health care for them, etc... The image is of a senator who doesn't support the troops. Much of this was a result of Kerry's vote against $87 billion to cover the costs of the ongoing invasion/occupation of Iraq, but Kerry is being attacked for past votes against various defense contracts/weapons...

    But change the issue and we can easily see a Democrat accusing a primary or election opponent of voting against "our children" for voting against a huge bill that happened to contain school lunches or drug education funding. And the way it works in Washington, politicians seeking our money to buy votes or campaign donations from people will get their pork barrel appropriations into a larger piece of legislation to ensure they get what they want. So tax dollars go to special interests under the guise of funding health care or education and if anyone votes against it, future opponents point to that "no" vote to accuse the person trying to show some fiscal restraint of voting against all that is good with the world.

    The result is a political class who can't afford to vote against looting the treasury...

    Solutions:

    Line item veto - allowing the President to strike individual appropriations from spending measures - would help and it would slow the bi-partisan looting of our money but wouldn't necessarily help reduce partisan looting.

    Requiring the House and Senate to pass spending measures as individual pieces of legislation instead of amassing dozens of measures into one bill. That would alleviate the need for the line item veto.

    Of course, abiding by the enumerated powers within the Constitution would eliminate the vast majority of spending, but that ain't going to happen (not that my other suggestions will get passed either).

    An informed electorate intent on fiscal restraint.

    Allowing only people who pay a minimum of $2000 - $3000 in income taxes every year to vote. Consider that the worst cars to buy are usually former rent-a-cars and you'll understand why private property is better than "communal" property in the long run and you'll understand why it is destructive to let people who pay no income taxes (or actually get "credits", i.e., welfare for working) vote on how much other people pay in taxes...

    There is one thing worse than a drunken sailor in a bar, a drunken sailor in a bar with your wallet.

  • #2

    Oh boy, wealth quallifactions for voting. I guess that means I'll have to join the revolution when your gov't controlled by the rich crushes my union.
    "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
    -Bokonon

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    • #3
      I thought anarchronists didn't have unions?
      We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

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      • #4
        Get out of Poly and go back to DC, you capitolist.
        "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
        -Bokonon

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        • #5
          I'm not even sure I know what that means you Anti-Christ I mean anachronist!!!
          We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

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          • #6
            If you and your brother buy a computer and decide who gets to use it and when, you don't ask a bunch of people who didn't pitch in to buy the thing to help decide who gets to use it and when... It's the same principle, you don't ask people with no income taxes what the income tax rate should be...

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            • #7
              good point
              We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

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              • #8
                I don't think that the Society for Creative Anachronism is much of a political force, but I could be mistaken... I mean, I suppose that they might threaten to beat the hell out of their local congressman with wooden swords or something along those lines...
                <p style="font-size:1024px">HTML is disabled in signatures </p>

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                • #9
                  I bought a sweet-ass wooden sword this weekend.
                  KH FOR OWNER!
                  ASHER FOR CEO!!
                  GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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                  • #10
                    Requiring the House and Senate to pass spending measures as individual pieces of legislation instead of amassing dozens of measures into one bill.


                    Jesus Christ! Do you know how ****ing long it'd take to pass the yearly budget then? Totally unworkable.

                    Of course, abiding by the enumerated powers within the Constitution would eliminate the vast majority of spending, but that ain't going to happen


                    If it does, you'll find a bevy of new Amendments or a new Constitutional Convention .

                    If you and your brother buy a computer and decide who gets to use it and when, you don't ask a bunch of people who didn't pitch in to buy the thing to help decide who gets to use it and when... It's the same principle, you don't ask people with no income taxes what the income tax rate should be...


                    By that logic, you don't ask people who aren't on welfare what individual welfare payments should be. You don't ask people who aren't scientists what the yearly science budget should be. That's a silly argument.
                    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                    • #11
                      I'm not even sure I know what that means you Anti-Christ I mean anachronist!!!
                      I resemble that remark!

                      If you and your brother buy a computer and decide who gets to use it and when, you don't ask a bunch of people who didn't pitch in to buy the thing to help decide who gets to use it and when... It's the same principle, you don't ask people with no income taxes what the income tax rate should be...
                      The state is not a computer. The rich doesn't own it. Well, they do, but they shouldn't.
                      "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                      -Bokonon

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                        By that logic, you don't ask people who aren't on welfare what individual welfare payments should be. You don't ask people who aren't scientists what the yearly science budget should be. That's a silly argument.
                        I took it to mean that you don't ask people who don't pay welfare what individual welfare payments should be, or that you don't ask people who don't pay for the science budget what the science budget should be. Perhaps it's still unworkable, but regardless (or irregardless???), the argument doesn't seem to be equivalent to the one that you're making.
                        <p style="font-size:1024px">HTML is disabled in signatures </p>

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                        • #13
                          Imran -
                          Jesus Christ! Do you know how ****ing long it'd take to pass the yearly budget then? Totally unworkable.
                          Why? Right now each bill gets voted on, each amendment to each bill gets voted on, and each bill that gets a is often thrown together into one massive bill which gets voted on. The difference is the Prez doesn't get to pick the massive bill apart and veto the individual measures. If anything, this will reduce the time Congress spends passing legislation since they'll know their special interest nonsense will have to stand by itself for all to see and the Prez will be able to veto their specialised legislation. Maybe you can explain why it's unworkable instead of offering up an unsupported assertion...

                          If it does, you'll find a bevy of new Amendments or a new Constitutional Convention .
                          Well, that is the process the Framers gave us.

                          By that logic, you don't ask people who aren't on welfare what individual welfare payments should be. You don't ask people who aren't scientists what the yearly science budget should be. That's a silly argument.
                          Read Loinburger's post, he understands logic. Geez, Imran

                          Ramo -
                          The state is not a computer. The rich doesn't own it. Well, they do, but they shouldn't.
                          You don't have to be rich to pay $2000-$3000 in income taxes, but I have no claim of "ownership" over the state if I don't pay the taxes it needs to function. The "state" is a piece of property, that's why we don't let foreigners vote on how it operates. They have their state and we have ours - that's called property.

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                          • #14
                            Berzerker, the idea of a state is that one person=one vote. It's not a corporation held by shareholders, so you might as well admit right away that you are a neo-fascist capitalist.

                            The troll is so shameful I won't even bite.
                            In Soviet Russia, Fake borises YOU.

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                            • #15
                              One more reform, members of Congress found to be trading votes for legislation proposed by other members in exchange for support for their own legislation shall be decapitated.

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