Who were the greatest defenders of all time?

[Pekka]

Tass, I think in the winter war there was no winners.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar


I thought this poll only counted winners?

Um, it does list the Byzantines and the IJA, both losers (though the former held out for quite some time).

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Pekka
Tass, I think in the winter war there was no winners.

You know I'm just kidding

You Finns defended yourselves well against the Soviet aggressors

[Dr Strangelove]

Actually I don't thionk of the Byzantines as heroically fending off the invading Slavs from the norht and the Arabs and Turks from the east, but instead as bumblers who whittled away their significant advantage over a period of hundreds of years. Think about it. They inherited the richest half of the Roman empire and they remained the most technologically sophisticated state with the exception of the Chinese empire for nearly one thousand years, yet their glory days lated less than 200 years. After Justinian died they began a long history of progressive losses to both the Slavs and the muslims. Surely had they even half the stones of their Roman ancestors they would have met these adversaries and eventually overcome them. Instead of rising to each of these challenges they simply tried to buy them off, never learning from their experiences and gradually rotting away at the core.

[Serb]

Actually Soviet aggressors had won Winter war.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Actually I don't thionk of the Byzantines as heroically fending off the invading Slavs from the norht and the Arabs and Turks from the east, but instead as bumblers who whittled away their significant advantage over a period of hundreds of years. Think about it. They inherited the richest half of the Roman empire and they remained the most technologically sophisticated state with the exception of the Chinese empire for nearly one thousand years, yet their glory days lated less than 200 years. After Justinian died they began a long history of progressive losses to both the Slavs and the muslims. Surely had they even half the stones of their Roman ancestors they would have met these adversaries and eventually overcome them. Instead of rising to each of these challenges they simply tried to buy them off, never learning from their experiences and gradually rotting away at the core.

I think the plaque killed the Eastern Empire. It hit in 542 during the Gothic Wars, and recurred, IIRC, about every ten years. By the time of 600's rolled around, the East was but a shadow of what it was only a few short decades earlier.

[Theben]

Originally posted by Verto
Austin.

Wrong, it's Houston!

*Click*

[Ramo]

It's certainly San Antonio. Since that's where the Alamo's at.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Ned
I think the plaque killed the Eastern Empire. It hit in 542 during the Gothic Wars, and recurred, IIRC, about every ten years. By the time of 600's rolled around, the East was but a shadow of what it was only a few short decades earlier.

That's some seriously deadly teeth discoloration.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Actually I don't thionk of the Byzantines as heroically fending off the invading Slavs from the norht and the Arabs and Turks from the east, but instead as bumblers who whittled away their significant advantage over a period of hundreds of years. Think about it. They inherited the richest half of the Roman empire and they remained the most technologically sophisticated state with the exception of the Chinese empire for nearly one thousand years, yet their glory days lated less than 200 years. After Justinian died they began a long history of progressive losses to both the Slavs and the muslims. Surely had they even half the stones of their Roman ancestors they would have met these adversaries and eventually overcome them. Instead of rising to each of these challenges they simply tried to buy them off, never learning from their experiences and gradually rotting away at the core.

Justinian's military exploits were to blame for much of the subsequent problems of the Empire. He overstretched their limits, exposing the Empire to a host of problem both military and financial. His reclamation of Italy was ultimately a disaster.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Ned


I think the plaque killed the Eastern Empire. It hit in 542 during the Gothic Wars, and recurred, IIRC, about every ten years. By the time of 600's rolled around, the East was but a shadow of what it was only a few short decades earlier.

What kind of plague? It certainly wasn't the bubonic plague. Records of the well-described bubonic plague epidemics in Europe during the Middle Ages and Renaissance show that after the great plague the proportion of the population immune to Yersinia pestis increased by about 50% with each epidemic. Thus the population loss in the epidemic in the 1660s was much smaller than that in the 14th century. Had bubonic plague struck centuries earlier than the great plague would never have happened because most of the population would have been immune. Furthermore it's unlikely that the same epidemic would hit the same region every ten years. I can't think of a documented occurence. Finally, you'd be shocked at how quickly a population can recover from the devastation of an epidemic. Europe's population recovered from the great plague in a mere two generations.

[Boris Godunov]

http://campus.northpark.edu/history/WebChron/EastEurope/Plague.html

Looks like it was bubonic plague to me, and I think most historians agree that it was.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
from
That's some seriously deadly teeth discoloration.

[Ned]

Well, Dr. Strangelove, whatever it was, and it probably was Bubonic Plague, the contrast between the state of the Empire in 542 and 610 is remarkable. The decline in power was the most dramatic imaginable. It had to be caused by disease.

[Kirnwaffen]

I'd like to put a mention in for the defenders of Wake Island, 1942. While their initial victory is mostly attributable to Japanese arrogance, the massive casualties inflicted upon the second Japanese assault was due solely to the tenacity of the defenders in the face of a far superior Japanese force. Special credit should go to the Marine pilots.