The problem of outsourcing: what should be done?

[MrBaggins]

are you hard of reading, Ned?

Taxes are an internal matter, thus aren't subject to WTO rules, and can encourage companies to have different practices... while not preventing their doing business with the government.

[Ned]

Originally posted by MrBaggins
You can impose new taxes on corporations... since the US has a right to do so, it being an internal matter.

Oh... and you can always reconsider renegotiating NAFTA and WTO membership...

Renegotiate NAFTA and WTO? To eliminate the very reason for their existence? Who would go along with that where in effect trade was "free" only for the US.

No one.

As to taxes, these would be no different in effect than tarriffs. You would be taxing foreign trade. That is a tarriff.

[Ned]

Originally posted by MrBaggins
are you hard of reading, Ned?

Taxes are an internal matter, thus aren't subject to WTO rules, and can encourage companies to have different practices... while not preventing their doing business with the government.

Mr.Baggins, I will give you a chance to explain yourself. Tell me what you had in mind.

[MrBaggins]

Originally posted by Ned
Renegotiate NAFTA and WTO? To eliminate the very reason for their existence? Who would go along with that where in effect trade was "free" only for the US.

No one.

Except the world still wants to trade with the US...

If its become inherently unfair, and disadvantageous to the US, and the US retains a certain degree of power, then it should consider renegotiation.

As to taxes, these would be no different in effect than tarriffs. You would be taxing foreign trade. That is a tarriff.

A "tarriff" that couldn't be deemed illegal by the EU, or any other nation, however... and there is the critical difference.

[MrBaggins]

Originally posted by Ned
Mr.Baggins, I will give you a chance to explain yourself. Tell me what you had in mind.

Essentially taxing corportations that internationally outsource... with exceptions. Make outsourcing to India cost more... for example.

[Kropotkin]

Hold your horses! Didn't the WTO give the EU right to raise penalty tarriffs against the US because certain tax-cuts for companies like Microsoft and Boeing was seen as unfair subsidies a few weeks ago? Or did I missunderstand something?

[gjramsey]

Essentially taxing corportations that internationally outsource... with exceptions. Make outsourcing to India cost more... for example.

Mr. Baggins, what would you do for large corporations that have offices in many countries that just move the jobs to places like India? It is not necessarily out-sourcing now, it is more off-shoring, but the end result is still lost jobs in the US. Many major corporations are doing this now-a-days, including some of your mentioned software companies.

[gunkulator]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


Outsourcing is a big deal because some rich white coller stiffs got their jobs sent away. The muffled roar will soon pass away slowly into the night. Skilled worker industries still go to the countries with higher productivity, and that would be where we come in.

Productivity is only half of the equation. Cost is the other half. As I once heard it described: "They're 1/8 the cost and we're not 8 times as good".

Instead of raising tariff borders (which in the end hurt us), we should be trying to get our youth more educuted in math and science.

To do what? In the end we are just plain too expensive for TPTB to even bother with us. It's one thing when a manufacturing job that takes a few days to learn gets shipped overseas. It's quite another thing when someone with a 4-year degree and massive college debt can't find a job in his field of training.

A capitalist is quick to blame the individual but really, what crystal ball can you look in nowadays and see the future job market? Will we still need engineers, accountants, graphic artists or financial analysists four years from now, or will all those firms have packed up and left by then? All the best education is the world means nothing when there's no work so education alone is not the answer. To compete with India and China, we need to race to the bottom, give up our standard of living and revert to living in a polluted environment and subsistant poverty. Hooray for pure capitalism!

An interesting site re this: http://www.yourjobisgoingtoindia.com/

[Whoha]

Originally posted by Vanguard
Step 1. Value added tax

Step 2. Single Payer Health Care, Eliminate Payroll taxes

Step 3. Enjoy the benefits of free trade

you mean double digit unemployment like the Europeans, sounds like fun.

[MrBaggins]

Originally posted by Kropotkin
Hold your horses! Didn't the WTO give the EU right to raise penalty tarriffs against the US because certain tax-cuts for companies like Microsoft and Boeing was seen as unfair subsidies a few weeks ago? Or did I missunderstand something?

"Service" trade is under discussion by, but not covered by the WTO... thus they can't rule on taxes in pure employment based instances.

[MrBaggins]

Originally posted by gjramsey


Mr. Baggins, what would you do for large corporations that have offices in many countries that just move the jobs to places like India? It is not necessarily out-sourcing now, it is more off-shoring, but the end result is still lost jobs in the US. Many major corporations are doing this now-a-days, including some of your mentioned software companies.

Make those jobs... in certain designated countries...more costly, through taxation.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

the US needs to do some things that are going to be labelled protectionist in order to right the hideous trade imbalance in general.

Which are then going to subject to retalitory tariffs from the EU, and perhaps resulting in a trade war, which is good for NO ONE!

Outsourcing is a big deal because some rich white coller stiffs got their jobs sent away. The muffled roar will soon pass away slowly into the night. Skilled worker industries still go to the countries with higher productivity, and that would be where we come in. Hell, though, some Indians are really productive in engineering. Instead of raising tariff borders (which in the end hurt us), we should be trying to get our youth more educuted in math and science.

The reason outsourcing is going on is because, frankly, our kids aren't getting educated well enough. Something happens between elementary school and the end of high school, where our students are horrible in the maths and sciences. THAT is the problem.

complete crap. outsourcing is a result of wage differential. not some enormous educational gap.

[gunkulator]

So where are the future jobs? According to
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4499315/, the job markets experiencing growth are (job, projected growth, % growth, median income):

Registered nurses 623,000 27% $48,090
Postsecondary teachers 603,000 38% $49,040
Retail sales 596,000 15% $17,700
Customer service 460,000 24% $26,240
Food prep 454,000 24% $16,328
Cashiers 454,000 13% $15,413
Janitors 414,000 18% $18,250
General managers 376,000 18% $68,210
Wait staff 367,000 18% $14,144
Nursing aides 343,000 25% $19,947

Moral of the story: If you want a job in this new global economy, quit school - it's no longer worth it.

edit: screwed up the url tags

[gjramsey]

Make those jobs... in certain designated countries...more costly, through taxation.

And how much do you tax? If the same job can be done overseas for 1/10th of the price as the person in the US, the company would still be will to pay the extra tax, and the cheaper employee overseas.

I think there is not an easy answer to this issue. Companies are in busy to make a profit, and pay the dividends to the stock holders. Moving jobs to cheaper locations is only natural to cut costs. I am sure that many of us hold stock in companies, and we would moan and groan if the profits for the companies do not keep increasing like they have been. Or moan and groan when the stock drops because the forecasted numbers were not met.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

the US needs to do some things that are going to be labelled protectionist in order to right the hideous trade imbalance in general.

Which are then going to subject to retalitory tariffs from the EU, and perhaps resulting in a trade war, which is good for NO ONE!

Outsourcing is a big deal because some rich white coller stiffs got their jobs sent away. The muffled roar will soon pass away slowly into the night. Skilled worker industries still go to the countries with higher productivity, and that would be where we come in. Hell, though, some Indians are really productive in engineering. Instead of raising tariff borders (which in the end hurt us), we should be trying to get our youth more educuted in math and science.

The reason outsourcing is going on is because, frankly, our kids aren't getting educated well enough. Something happens between elementary school and the end of high school, where our students are horrible in the maths and sciences. THAT is the problem.

ono, they might slap even more penalty tariffs/non-tariff barriers/investigations then they already have placed on us which are resulting in a 600 BILLION dollar trade deficit. The reason outsourcing/offshoring is going on is that these countries are running mercantilist economies and they say build it here or don't sell it here(meanwhile they can ship it to the US no problem). Not this bogus "our kids aren't smart enough/we don't want to do some jobs" crap(I guess the millions of tech workers here in the US that were laid off and were apparently smart enough to do the job between 93 and 2000 got dumb all of the sudden or something). We can NOT sustain the trade deficit, something has to give, the economy(which it looks like is the case considering the debt/fall of the dollar to date), or the one way trade deals.

I like how you bring Europe into this, considering that they just levied tariffs on us for our own tax code. I especially like it that you use the few trade agreements we have that aren't total ****jobs to justify all the other ones which are.

We are going to have to go to say... China(130 BILLION dollar trade deficit this year) and threaten to close our doors unless they start buying from us. Unless you think that they will start buying from us out of the goodness of their hearts.