The problem of outsourcing: what should be done?

[MrBaggins]

Originally posted by Ned
Mr. Baggins,This whole argument then is completely disingenuous as jobs of all kinds had been moving out of the United States and the industrialized world to second and third-world countries for decades due to cost considerations. Why do only certain American's deserve protection? Why would you protect back-office clerks and not steelworkers. Why would you protect programmers and not printed circuit board assembly workers? Why would you protect computer support personnel and not computer assemblers?

Tax legislation involving those industries would have WTO applicable rules, due to their dealing with actual products, thus we cannot do something about them without falling foul of the WTO. Services do not, however... and thus we can do somthing about those.

[Shi Huangdi]

Ned: I don't mean to cut off immigration from Asia entirely, but for one thing we could get rid of H-1B visas and the L-1 visa equivalent.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ned
The other is pro labor, believing that business grow money on trees to pay workers more for less.

No, the other believes the business money is grown by the actual work done in the company. And that the actual workers get less than they produce, since a significant share of the money goes to the shareholders.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Spiffor



No, the other believes the business money is grown by the actual work done in the company. And that the actual workers get less than they produce, since a significant share of the money goes to the shareholders.

Spiffor, with such attitudes, there is little wonder why France is the land of strikes and inefficient business. It is clear that France can never support free trade as it needs to protect the inefficient French worker who is more concerned with lunch, wine and long August vacations.

[Ned]

Shi, the problem we face with Asia are not solved by isolating us from outsourcing, etc. China and India have thrown off their socialist thinking are now allowing businesses the full opportunity to compete. Indian software and Chinese manufacturing are the wave of the future that we in the United States cannot stop even if we wanted to.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ned
Spiffor, with such attitudes, there is little wonder why France is the land of strikes and inefficient business. It is clear that France can never support free trade as it needs to protect the inefficient French worker who is more concerned with lunch, wine and long August vacations.

Did you know the average working hour of a Frenchman was 20% more productive than the average working hour of an American? The 35 hours week especially made us even less slackers at work than before. One of the reasosn there are so few Frenchmen in this forum is because there are few Frenchmen who idle on the internet at work.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Did you know the average working hour of a Frenchman was 20% more productive than the average working hour of an American? The 35 hours week especially made us even less slackers at work than before. One of the reasosn there are so few Frenchmen in this forum is because there are few Frenchmen who idle on the internet at work.

Yeah, but if you pay them 40% more, French business still suffers.

As to why Frenchmen are not on Apoyton, I suspect that the requirement to use English bugs the hell out of them.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ned
Yeah, but if you pay them 40% more, French business still suffers.

I fail to see how this statement backs your assertion that I, with many Apolytoners, believe a company's money grow on trees

Global companies will invest in places where they'll be able to milk as much profit as possible from their production means. This certainly doesn't go against the fact money is made by the production means, i.e by actual work.

[Ned]

Spiffor, the attitude that private business must keep high priced employees over less high-priced employees just because the high-priced employees are French or Americans is the problem. Businesses must compete, make profit or they die. They DIE. They do not have the luxury to employ high-priced French or American workers unless all its competitors have to as well. As we know, the French and American unions and their lackeys like Kerry are not going to be able to keep Asia in the stone age for much longer. Asians will compete with vigor and ruthlessness. French and American companies can compete back sucessfully unless they are crippled by the likes of Kerry at the behest of his union bosses. If they are crippled by union politicians in their ability to compete, French and American companies will soon die in face of foreign competition.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by Ned
Shi, the problem we face with Asia are not solved by isolating us from outsourcing, etc. China and India have thrown off their socialist thinking are now allowing businesses the full opportunity to compete. Indian software and Chinese manufacturing are the wave of the future that we in the United States cannot stop even if we wanted to.

that is because they are correctly protecting these industries from competition. Maybe we should follow their lead and not allow imports.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yes, that turned out really well for the American auto industry in the 70s.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Yes, that turned out really well for the American auto industry in the 70s.

protectionism is only as good as its implementation. if u take the advantage and use it to be fat and inefficient then ur in trouble.

if u take the advantage and use it to leverage market share in other markets. then it is a powerful weapon.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Yes, that turned out really well for the American auto industry in the 70s.

It turned out extremely well for Harley Davidison in the 80s.

[GePap]

The obvious solution to outsourcing is to allow for the total free movement of labor, just as we have now free movement of capital and have had free movement of resources for a while.

Sadly, free movement of labor is politically impossible.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by GePap
The obvious solution to outsourcing is to allow for the total free movement of labor, just as we have now free movement of capital and have had free movement of resources for a while.

Sadly, free movement of labor is politically impossible.

I somehow doubt that the free traders want to reduce the US to a third world nation(emphasis on want to).