The problem of outsourcing: what should be done?

[chequita guevara]

We should nuke the Indians.

[MrBaggins]

Originally posted by Vanguard
Step 3. Enjoy the benefits of free trade

In New Delhi?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by dainbramage20
where the remaining 15 american Socialists gather so I can join.

http://sp-usa.org/

Join today!

[Ned]

If I want software developed, I can do it myself, hire others to do it, or simply buy it from third parties. How can you prevent anyone from hiring companies located outside the United States to do software development or for that matter from simply buying the software from parties outside the United States? There is no way to do this except this shut down trade with the rest of the world.

If I want a widget as a component for my end-user product, I can make it myself, hire others to make it, or buy it from third parties. The question is a same question as in the case of software. How would you prevent me from having the widget made for me outside the United States or from simply buying it from somebody who made it outside the United States? There is no way to do it except to shut down trade with the rest of the world.

Anyone who suggest otherwise has simply got to explain to us how one stops it.

[Az]

Originally posted by MrBaggins
So you don't live in the country... and are a socialist, to boot.

Your opinion matters in what way, to the discussion on whether the US should change its own policy to become more protectionist?

a) Outsourcing is an issue in Israel, as well. I can observe the trends going on here, and make my observations about the phenomenon.

b) The fact that I am socialist DOESN'T MAKE ANY OF MY ARGUMENTS WEAKER. That's a known fallacy. Adress the issues at hand, and reply to my arguments. The same is correct about the fact that I don't live in the USA. My arguments aren't made weaker. I will not be the one influencing the politics, since I am not a voter in US politics. But this doesn't mean that my opinion, and/or arguments don't matter. I still can persuade people in the correctness of my opinion, thus influencing the election.


c) This is an open forum. I am free to make my recommendations as to the policies the USA needs to take. I am interested in the problem because I care about the wellbeing of those people, both in the west, and in the developing countries. If you don't like it, well, frankly you can stuff it.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
Bush HAS BEEN trying to stop it, with the steel tariffs. This made me change my previously positive opinion of him, and after that he has only been going downhill in my view. Protectionism is an anti-capitalistic thing, a commie thing!

The steel tariffs has now lead to counter-measures by EU.

You have a point Ollie that Bush did try to keep jobs here in America. But you will NEVER hear anything positive about Bush from any of the American outsourcing fear mongers here. This tells you something about the politics of this from the American point view.

[Kropotkin]

I'm posting a P.S. for Az.:

This does of cource not apply to gojim's addressing the conflict in palestine. That's a well know, self evident, exception.
[/troll]

[Imran Siddiqui]

the US needs to do some things that are going to be labelled protectionist in order to right the hideous trade imbalance in general.

Which are then going to subject to retalitory tariffs from the EU, and perhaps resulting in a trade war, which is good for NO ONE!

Outsourcing is a big deal because some rich white coller stiffs got their jobs sent away. The muffled roar will soon pass away slowly into the night. Skilled worker industries still go to the countries with higher productivity, and that would be where we come in. Hell, though, some Indians are really productive in engineering. Instead of raising tariff borders (which in the end hurt us), we should be trying to get our youth more educuted in math and science.

The reason outsourcing is going on is because, frankly, our kids aren't getting educated well enough. Something happens between elementary school and the end of high school, where our students are horrible in the maths and sciences. THAT is the problem.

[MrBaggins]

Originally posted by Azazel

a) Outsourcing is an issue in Israel, as well. I can observe the trends going on here, and make my observations about the phenomenon.

You care about, however, your situation in Izrael. What you'd like to achieve isn't the same thing as what works for the US public.

Why should we (as in the US) care if workers in new countries get jobs (that were ours,) or if we don't distribute wealth to other countries?

It seems to me abundantly clear that you're of the opinion that the world deserves to leech off the US.

The world will be much better off with a stronger US, trading with its natural trading partners, rather than leaking service industry jobs to third world nations.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Sava
yeah, Latin America and Mexico have prospered under the Neo-Liberalist policies

1. Close corporate tax loopholes. Tax companies (or put tariffs on) that reside in tax havens.

2. Reform corporate tax system so that companies that outsource pay more taxes than companies that employ Americans.

3. Offer incentives to create jobs in America... tax credits, etc.

The current leadership doesn't seem to eager to tackle this problem... in fact, they think it's good. So a new president is a legitimate suggestion for reducing outsourcing. But I'll leave it at that.

Sava, there many conceptual difficulties with your ideas, but the reason no one is doing anything is that there is little that can be done except to raise tarriffs. But Bush did try that with steel. The WTO, at the behest of Kerry's allies in Europe, had them declared illegal.

Next solution?

[MrBaggins]

You can impose new taxes on corporations... since the US has a right to do so, it being an internal matter.

Oh... and you can always reconsider renegotiating NAFTA and WTO membership...

[chequita guevara]

I like Templar's ideas.

[Imran Siddiqui]

You would .

[Ned]

Originally posted by Azazel


We need more people who think like this.



Outsourcing is NOT a problem. The problem is the crappy conditions that people have to work in in the new companies, and other "deregulation" causes.

I think that what should be done is equalize the enviromental regulation, and require decent (not equal, decent) payment. That way, the workers in the new countries will profit more from the move, and we'll be more safe from the industries moving there fore their own sole profit.

How do you do that? How do you tell a country like India that it has to pay workers 100 times more than they do now and on top of that invest billions upon billions in environmental equipment that it does not have and cannot expect to have in 100 years?

If the socialists had this kind of magic wand power they seem to have, why don't we simply raise everyone's salary in Israel and the United States to one million per year, which is the equivalent of what you are asking India to do. On top of that, declare as once did King Authur, a new camelot where it rains only on the King's authroization and there is no polution by edict.

[Ned]

Re: Re: The problem of outsourcing: what should be done?

Originally posted by Whoha


the US needs to do some things that are going to be labelled protectionist in order to right the hideous trade imbalance in general. As far as outsourcing goes, I think the congress is going to pass a law saying that the federal government won't do business with companies that outsource, but I prefer the more direct solution to the problem myself.

The Federal Government will have a major problem doing business, then.