Rugby - Ball's Out!

[finbar]

Two years ago?

[Caligastia]

Three. I looked it up, it was 2001. What a strange year for Super 12 that was. The only year a non-NZ team won and none of the NZ teams made the playoffs.

[finbar]

It's obviously going to be a triennial thing!

[Havak]

but the Sri Lankans aren't a top team. A couple of handy bats and one bowler on whom they rely too much

And now he is an injury doubt for the second test as well.

And if you look back to the early World Cup matches where you struggled, J**** wasn't firing in those matches

That is true. The transition was always going to be difficult given the reliance on the man – but it could have been managed better. All indications are Clive will make the same selection errors that lost the game to Ireland. But he knows best – he is the Knight of the game after all.

Although he has burgeoning business interests here - if you can call a chain of coffee shops a burgeoning business interest.

Ah but will he be able to resist the Saracens antipodean pension scheme?

I'd also be very interested to see the results graph for teams that have turned over coaches every couple of years.

See Wales, results thereof.

Actually they continue to bemuse and amuse in equal measure. After interviewing two candidates for the head coach position they then gave it to a third guy instead. It has caused all sorts of grief in Wales.

All one of them. John O'Neill's.

I guarantee they sold more than that – having met a fair cross section of your countrymen I am sure some of those bought one very early on (1999 probably).

Tamerlin and LDiCesare could take on Scotland together and beat them. If Tamerlin ever passed the ball to LDiCesares.

Depends how much ‘pain reliever’ Tamerlin had before the match too?

Unfortunately I think LDiCesare is right – the selection of cover at nine will not matter because Scotland could not beat Uruguay right now. It’s a shame as we could do with France losing before we face them – but no realistic chance now exists. What a shame that Ireland turned up only against us.

About Ireland's win? ****ing sweet!

The boys from the Emerald Isle thoroughly deserved it – I have no problem losing when the better side on the day wins.

So the Super 12 is interesting right now then – did I see the Blues destroyed by the reds this weekend? And the other two Aussie sides losing in South Africa?

Of course it all pails into insignificance besides the main news of the weekend (no not Tigers winning 18-5 at Saints!) – the decline of West Indian cricket. Did you catch any of it Finbar – it was a batting display worthy of England at their worst but actually committed by the opposition for once!

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
And now he is an injury doubt for the second test as well.

Is he? Oh dear. In his home town, too. Not surprising. He's overbowled to buggery. He got through something like 65 overs in our second innings.

That is true. The transition was always going to be difficult given the reliance on the man – but it could have been managed better.

How? As I see it, the problem is that there isn't another one of him within cooee. Fair enough, I suppose, given that he was one of those once-a-generation chaps.

Ah but will he be able to resist the Saracens antipodean pension scheme?

I thought you had Larkham lined up with Saracens. Leicester will probably offer him a motza.

Actually they continue to bemuse and amuse in equal measure. After interviewing two candidates for the head coach position they then gave it to a third guy instead. It has caused all sorts of grief in Wales.

Yes, I read about it. Put aside your Taffy-phobia for a second and tell me which of the three would have been the best bet.

So the Super 12 is interesting right now then – did I see the Blues destroyed by the reds this weekend? And the other two Aussie sides losing in South Africa?

The Blues were utterly abysmal without their four ABs. I had people over for dinner but taped the match. Had a fast-forward trip through the game later. They were incompetent.

The Waratahs actually did well, coming from 20-0 down to hit the front in the second half, losing to a Paulse try in the last minute. The Brumbies, stricken by handling errors, were simply steamrolled by the Bulls' gargantuan pack in appalling weather. Still, the Brumbies struggled the week before, so maybe they need a serious reality check.

Of course it all pails into insignificance besides the main news of the weekend (no not Tigers winning 18-5 at Saints!) – the decline of West Indian cricket. Did you catch any of it Finbar – it was a batting display worthy of England at their worst but actually committed by the opposition for once!

Yes, I saw the, um, highlights. The Windies are in terrible trouble and have been for a couple of years. Two batsmen - Lara and Chanderpaul - and not once decent bowler. Sadly, I can't see a future for them. They missed the boat when they didn't plan for the future while enjoying their heydays.

On the bright side, though, the baddies lost in the Spanish general election.

[Havak]

How? As I see it, the problem is that there isn't another one of him within cooee.

The key with change is to make it in manageable amounts. Where I think it went wrong is that Clive threw the baby out with the bath water. Too much change in one go, too many good players sidelined at once and too much youth thrown in too quickly. Apart from that he got everything right of course. ;-)

I thought you had Larkham lined up with Saracens. Leicester will probably offer him a motza.

*Scratches head* That is an Aussie colloquialism?

Put aside your Taffy-phobia for a second and tell me which of the three would have been the best bet.

That is a hard thing to ask me to do. Purely based on coaching ability it had to be Gareth Jenkins of Llanelli. The guy they appointed came from Gwent Dragons – the same team rolled twice by Tigers in our worst season ever.

As for Jenkins he might be the man who should have got it but I detest him – he is the most ungracious loser Tigers have ever beaten. His lack of class after their semi-final defeat in the 2002 H Cup will never be forgotten by me. You see I couldn’t put it aside for long!

Two batsmen - Lara and Chanderpaul - and not once decent bowler

Wheras England finally seem to have a little more depth in the batting and the young bowlers seem able to mix it with second tier sides at last.

On the bright side, though, the baddies lost in the Spanish general election.

Any party that actually names itself “Popular” is just asking to lose.

We are just kicking into election gear here ready for next year – Blair and Prescott both tried to play up the Tories as a credible threat at the Labour conference this weekend.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak

The boys from the Emerald Isle thoroughly deserved it – I have no problem losing when the better side on the day wins.

So the Super 12 is interesting right now then – did I see the Blues destroyed by the reds this weekend? And the other two Aussie sides losing in South Africa?

Yes, well, the Blues were without Carlos and Xavier Rush due to injury which really seemed to take the spark out of them. Despite the scoreline I wouldn't say the Blues were destroyed. They came very close to scoring tries on a number of occasions and managed to put the Reds under a lot of pressure for the majority of the game. Still, there are no excuses for not winning. The Reds got a yellow card at the end of the first half yet still managed to run in a try. Interestingly, the Blues have never beaten the Reds on their home turf.

At this point I think we will be lucky to have one NZ side make it to the playoffs. If I had to guess I'd say Stormers v Waratahs for the final. Who was that who was saying the Super 12 is too predictable?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by finbar
On the bright side, though, the baddies lost in the Spanish general election.

I thought they won? The socialist party fits my definition of "baddies".

Also, the only reason they won was because of the recent terrorist attack. Before that they were way down in the polls. Looks like Spain will be following the path of appeasement along with the likes of France, Germany, and Belgium.

[Havak]

Oh I'm sure I have said it was predictable once or twice maybe?

Follow through your logic on the Spanish election - we have here a terrorist attack that has succeeded - it has changed the result of an election and taken a member of the alliance out.

Our politics aren't the same - but that fact still worries me immensely.

Strangely enough I was talking to a guy last night who did six months there (the poor sod was called up off the reserve list over three years after coming out) and his opinion was this - "they don't want us there and they certainly don't want democracy - they want the clerics in charge". It will be difficult to fight that as if this is true they never can and never will emapthise with US/Uk ideals.

Just food for thought.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
Oh I'm sure I have said it was predictable once or twice maybe?

Yes, yes you did.

Follow through your logic on the Spanish election - we have here a terrorist attack that has succeeded - it has changed the result of an election and taken a member of the alliance out.

Our politics aren't the same - but that fact still worries me immensely.

Me too. I'm afraid that this event will embolden the terrorists into trying to influence the outcome of other elections in this manner.

Strangely enough I was talking to a guy last night who did six months there (the poor sod was called up off the reserve list over three years after coming out) and his opinion was this - "they don't want us there and they certainly don't want democracy - they want the clerics in charge". It will be difficult to fight that as if this is true they never can and never will emapthise with US/Uk ideals.

Just food for thought.

I'm starting to wonder if the Iraqis want democracy myself. I thought the country was educated enough to handle it. We'll just have to wait and see I suppose.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Caligastia
Also, the only reason they won was because of the recent terrorist attack. Before that they were way down in the polls. Looks like Spain will be following the path of appeasement along with the likes of France, Germany, and Belgium.

And less supporters for the Bushmen...

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Caligastia

I'm starting to wonder if the Iraqis want democracy myself. I thought the country was educated enough to handle it. We'll just have to wait and see I suppose.

First, they would have to know what Democracy is... that which I am sure they don't as they have never known it.

Second, they certainly need a Democracy... but certainly not a Democracy based on our occidental values.

I am a bit in a hurry and I can't stay here any longer. I will try to come back here later tonight.

[Caligastia]

Tamerlin and Havak-

The first scientific poll of the Iraqi public (performed by Zogby international survey researchers) has a few positive things to say about what is happening in Iraq. Here's a summary of the results as published in the Wall Street Journal:

• Iraqis are optimistic. Seven out of 10 say they expect their country and their personal lives will be better five years from now. On both fronts, 32% say things will become much better.

• Asked to name one country they would most like Iraq to model its new government on from five possibilities - neighboring, Baathist Syria; neighbor and Islamic monarchy Saudi Arabia; neighbor and Islamist republic Iran; Arab lodestar Egypt; or the U.S. - the most popular model by far was the U.S. The U.S. was preferred as a model by 37% of Iraqis selecting from those five--more than Syria, Iran and Egypt put together. Saudi Arabia was in second place at 28%...Interestingly, Iraqi Shiites, coreligionists with Iranians, do not admire Iran's Islamist government; the U.S. is six times as popular with them as a model for governance.

• Our interviewers inquired whether Iraq should have an Islamic government, or instead let all people practice their own religion. Only 33% want an Islamic government; a solid 60% say no.

• Perhaps the strongest indication that an Islamic government won't be part of Iraq's future: The nation is thoroughly secularized. We asked how often our respondents had attended the Friday prayer over the previous month. Fully 43% said "never.”

• You can also cross out "Osama II": 57% of Iraqis with an opinion have an unfavorable view of Osama bin Laden, with 41% of those saying it is a very unfavorable view.

• And you can write off the possibility of a Baath revival. We asked "Should Baath Party leaders who committed crimes in the past be punished, or should past actions be put behind us?" A thoroughly unforgiving Iraqi public stated by 74% to 18% that Saddam's henchmen should be punished.

• Evidence of the comparative gentleness of this war can be seen in the poll. Less than 30% of our sample of Iraqis knew or heard of anyone killed in the spring fighting. Meanwhile, fully half knew some family member, neighbor or friend who had been killed by Iraqi security forces during the years Saddam held power.

• Perhaps the ultimate indication of how comfortable Iraqis are with America's aims in their region came when they were asked how long they would like to see American and British forces remain in their country: Six months? One year? Two years or more? Two thirds of those with an opinion urged that the coalition troops should stick around for at least another year.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
The key with change is to make it in manageable amounts. Where I think it went wrong is that Clive threw the baby out with the bath water. Too much change in one go, too many good players sidelined at once and too much youth thrown in too quickly. Apart from that he got everything right of course. ;-)

Yes, ideally you'd gradually introduce the up and comers, but sometimes circumstances work against it. Now Neil Back is retiring. So, in the space of three months, you've lost J****, Leonard, Neil Back and, for what he was worth, Bracken. How many caps - how much experience - are you losing with the first three? In one hit? It's an accident of timing, just about impossible to counter. England had to win the WRC. It was their best team ever, but a team - or a unit - very near its use-by date in key areas, and it could be a while before such a unit comes around again. But I think it comes back to J****. Relying so much on one man is ultimately so dangerous. Unless, of course, there's another one on the way up.

*Scratches head* That is an Aussie colloquialism?

Actually, I should have spelled it motzer or motser. It means buckets of money.

That is a hard thing to ask me to do. Purely based on coaching ability it had to be Gareth Jenkins of Llanelli. The guy they appointed came from Gwent Dragons – the same team rolled twice by Tigers in our worst season ever.

As for Jenkins he might be the man who should have got it but I detest him – he is the most ungracious loser Tigers have ever beaten. His lack of class after their semi-final defeat in the 2002 H Cup will never be forgotten by me. You see I couldn’t put it aside for long!

So they got it wrong on several counts, the most important of which was that they could've appointed a coach who gives you the irrits!

Wheras England finally seem to have a little more depth in the batting and the young bowlers seem able to mix it with second tier sides at last.

Harmison has a lot of potential, as does Jones, the chap who injured himself in the first Test out here. As to the batting - who knows until they meet a top bowling outfit? It's people like Trescothic who are the problem - flattering to deceive against ordinary bowling, found out against top bowling because of fundamental technique problems.

We are just kicking into election gear here ready for next year – Blair and Prescott both tried to play up the Tories as a credible threat at the Labour conference this weekend.

We have a fascinating situation here. Howard has largely been unchallenged for the last five years. The Labor Opposition has been impotent, with unimaginative leaders lacking the guts actually to differentiate themselves from Howard and his policies, as if afraid of alienating the electorate. Now, Labor has Mark Latham in charge. Maverick-ish, famous for calling Howard an arse-licker in relation to George Bush, and so on. And the electorate is responding to him. Howard, after so many years of Labor impotence, doesn't know how to respond. Now, with the bombing in Spain, and the change of government there, Howard is very, very scared. The next election is due for the end of the year. Intriguing times ahead.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia

Also, the only reason they won was because of the recent terrorist attack. Before that they were way down in the polls. Looks like Spain will be following the path of appeasement along with the likes of France, Germany, and Belgium.

The gap between the parties had narrowed as the election approached. What has to be remembered is that 90% of the population opposed Spanish involvement in Iraq. There were massive protests. And the government's immediate reponse to the bombings - blaming ETA, denying al-Qaeda (or whomever else), when the complexity of the atrocity was not only obviously way beyond the capacity of ETA, but also completely at odds with ETA's practices - was what tipped the scales, IMHO. The government politicised the atrocity and suffered for it.