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  • We were effectively on top of the world from November 2002 until last Saturday.

    I’d love to say it’s nice to see Rathbone showing promise but frankly the idea of Australia having found another good player doesn’t exactly float my boat.

    NZ are also due to face France and Wales is sanctioned Tests on the same tour so the whole thing is just bizarre.
    It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Havak
      We were effectively on top of the world from November 2002 until last Saturday.
      Well, there's effectively and there's officially. In this instance, I opt for the latter.

      I’d love to say it’s nice to see Rathbone showing promise but frankly the idea of Australia having found another good player doesn’t exactly float my boat.
      If England hits the slippery slide, I'll expect to see you in a wattle scarf. I would call him only promising. Quick, strong, good hands, nice step. He's got quite a way to go. And he's obviously a centre.

      NZ are also due to face France and Wales is sanctioned Tests on the same tour so the whole thing is just bizarre.
      I'm sure it was fiscal. Obviously. Now the Australians are looking for midweek matches on their NH trip to give the whole touring party an outing. Ideal opportunity for Clive to trot out his A team. Although they seem to be fully occupied in the 6 Nations at the moment.
      " ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak
      "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.

      Comment


      • Well, there's effectively and there's officially. In this instance, I opt for the latter.
        I fully understand. And using that interpretation of course it is NZ who were the shortest reigning number one team ever. They regained the ranking for all of 48 hours (?) in the pool rounds of the RWC I believe – and did so without troubling to play any other side in the top five. Can you explain that one to me?

        If England hits the slippery slide, I'll expect to see you in a wattle scarf
        And on that day Tony Blair will say to the British people “I am sorry that I lied”.

        So how long before Rathbone figures in Eddie’s plans? Especially if the franchise is playing him out of position?

        You will note I am leaving the nationality thing alone – Clive keeps picking Boks for us these days (the tight head who polished wood last weekend is a Bok).

        Although they seem to be fully occupied in the 6 Nations at the moment.
        And my fear is he will pick the same 22 again for Wales. Although I hope not.
        It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Havak
          I fully understand. And using that interpretation of course it is NZ who were the shortest reigning number one team ever. They regained the ranking for all of 48 hours (?) in the pool rounds of the RWC I believe – and did so without troubling to play any other side in the top five. Can you explain that one to me?
          Ask the guy who decided last year that South Africa knocked off Australia as the top ranked Test cricket team despite Australia having smashed SA earlier that same year. Different sport, same stupidity.

          BTW, I'm watching the Australians falling in a heap in the first Test in Sri Lanka. Surprisingly, the curator prepared a slow, low turner. Equally surprisingly, the Sri Lankans picked one quick and four spinners, opening the bowling with the quick and an offie. The spear chucker took 6 in our first innings. Turning them square on the first day. But then any half decent spinner allowed to throw a ball will turn it square. Such a shame that a fear of the cricket world splitting down racial lines lets the spear chucker go on making a mockery of the game's laws.

          And on that day Tony Blair will say to the British people “I am sorry that I lied”.
          Point taken. Still, on the bright side, our Thatcher-ite Conservative government is now running scared from a rejuvenated opposition.

          So how long before Rathbone figures in Eddie’s plans? Especially if the franchise is playing him out of position?
          He'd have to come under consideration in the long term but he's not setting the world on fire yet. Just showing that he can play. He's on the wing because he's got Matt Giteau and Stirling Mortlock ahead of him in the centres and he's not going to shift them in a hurry. But in terms of a Wallaby future, he's going to run into the obvious problem - we have plenty of talented centres and wingers. We're in need of talented newcomers elsewhere.

          You will note I am leaving the nationality thing alone – Clive keeps picking Boks for us these days (the tight head who polished wood last weekend is a Bok).
          And the moral? Picking players born elsewhere is a fast track to slipping from the top of the heap.



          And my fear is he will pick the same 22 again for Wales. Although I hope not.
          Mmmm. So if he does, presumably he's saving the 1st XV for matches against one of the S12 teams?
          " ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak
          "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.

          Comment


          • Different sport, same stupidity.
            You have consistently argued that rankings should, at best, be taken with a large dose of salt. I am moving to your way of thinking.

            Such a shame that a fear of the cricket world splitting down racial lines lets the spear chucker go on making a mockery of the game's laws.
            Muralitharan again eh? Such a big issue being provoked by such a small man. It is weird that he performs so well at home matches isn’t it? Another six wickets this time?

            At least it sounds as if Dilshan’s knock was worthy enough?

            And Warne without the customary KGs is a weird sight I have to say!

            Still, on the bright side, our Thatcher-ite Conservative government is now running scared from a rejuvenated opposition.
            There’s hope for you all yet then.

            We're in need of talented newcomers elsewhere.
            Front row forwards perhaps?

            And the moral? Picking players born elsewhere is a fast track to slipping from the top of the heap.
            Unless you can cherry pick from the best of the best.

            Mmmm. So if he does, presumably he's saving the 1st XV for matches against one of the S12 teams?
            He is not a man who admits mistakes easily. A lot of the so far missing RWC final XXII are fit again and have had a couple of strong games. He always says he picks on form – I shall watch the squad for Wales with great interest.
            It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Havak
              You have consistently argued that rankings should, at best, be taken with a large dose of salt. I am moving to your way of thinking.
              Yes, well, I'm yet to hear a meaningful argument in their favour. They're a symptom of people's need for lists. They're statistically based. And, as has been proved, statistics produce blips that render the whole thing laughable. Case closed.

              Muralitharan again eh? Such a big issue being provoked by such a small man. It is weird that he performs so well at home matches isn’t it? Another six wickets this time?
              He has 490+ lifetime wickets, so he's potent all over the world. But if you throw a ball, you can impart massive spin on it. The extension of the arm provides the extra leverage. Add that advantage to his natural accuracy and you have a wicket-taking machine. It's well known that a lot of international umpires and a majority of international players believe he throws. But on it goes. Politics, unfortunately. The Sri Lankan skipper - Ranatunga, I think - was going to take his team from the field after Murali was called for throwing, citing racism.

              At least it sounds as if Dilshan’s knock was worthy enough?
              Fine knock. They know how to play their low, slow turners. Patience. Something you need in spades in order to succeed with both bat and ball. It's what will cost the Australians. It's why - as the world's best team - we haven't won a series on the sub-continent against anyone who can exploit their home conditions. We should be called the world's best team away from the sub-continent.

              And Warne without the customary KGs is a weird sight I have to say!
              Yes, he's fit, but not the bowler he was. The various finger and shoulder operations have taken their toll. He's lost most of his variation, now relying on accuracy and guile.

              Front row forwards perhaps?
              Mmmm. Possibly. Speaking of which, I heard that J. Leonard is giving it away. I wonder if he remembers Saturdays without rugby. I wonder if he'll need therapy.

              He is not a man who admits mistakes easily. A lot of the so far missing RWC final XXII are fit again and have had a couple of strong games. He always says he picks on form – I shall watch the squad for Wales with great interest.
              I saw a highlights package from the Ireland game. I enjoyed the look on Clive's face. There's rather a lot on the line in the next few weeks. Though I note les grenouilles' John The Baptist has succumbed to a hammy.
              " ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak
              "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by finbar
                I saw a highlights package from the Ireland game. I enjoyed the look on Clive's face. There's rather a lot on the line in the next few weeks. Though I note les grenouilles' John The Baptist has succumbed to a hammy.
                Six weeks out!
                "Democracy is the worst form of government there is, except for all the others that have been tried." Sir Winston Churchill

                Comment


                • A quick trip to Lourdes, peut-être?

                  Now there's a creepy place.
                  " ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak
                  "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.

                  Comment


                  • Case closed.
                    Are you Ming in disguise?

                    The Sri Lankan skipper - Ranatunga, I think - was going to take his team from the field after Murali was called for throwing, citing racism.
                    Let him. The sub continent sides cannot survive financially playing each other. Call their bluff.

                    Contrast the lenient view towards Mura with the hard line being taken with England over Zimbabwe and you will see where the racism in the sport really lies.

                    Yes, he's fit, but not the bowler he was. The various finger and shoulder operations have taken their toll. He's lost most of his variation, now relying on accuracy and guile.
                    He got a 5 wicket haul I see?

                    Mmmm. Possibly. Speaking of which, I heard that J. Leonard is giving it away. I wonder if he remembers Saturdays without rugby. I wonder if he'll need therapy.
                    It’s a year or so before he will need it – he plans to play on for Quins.

                    What is happening to us now is very reminiscent of what happened to the Wallabies after 99?

                    Though I note les grenouilles' John The Baptist has succumbed to a hammy.
                    Bad news for them – good for us.

                    Early signs are Clive plans to pick exactly the same failures next time . He needs to remember that when you coach an English side of any type you are only ever three losses away from the sack at most.

                    Oh yes – our old mate Rod Kafer has been banned for six weeks for verbally abusing a referee last month. Kafer is now denied access to the touchline, playing enclosure, tunnel and changing rooms for the length of the ban – a bit tough given he is player-coach. What did he do? The referee blew full time as they lost 22-18 to Northampton when Rod thought his side should have been given a penalty under the oppo posts instead. His mistake – making the verbals very public indeed.
                    It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Havak


                      Are you Ming in disguise?
                      I thought a mod should make an appearance in one of our threads even if by proxy.

                      Contrast the lenient view towards Mura with the hard line being taken with England over Zimbabwe and you will see where the racism in the sport really lies.
                      The government over there, who is leaning on the Test Board, is behaving appallingly. They won't come out and prevent a tour of Zimbabwe, they just make sufficient noise for the Board to shiver in its boots. We had the same thing here over playing a match in Zimbabwe during the last Cricket World Cup. The Government pressured, the ACB said get stuffed. Your lot didn't. And what is not touring going to achieve? Comparisons with the boycott of South Africa over apartheid are ridiculous, IMHO.

                      He got a 5 wicket haul I see?
                      Yep. Off about 40 overs. Accuracy and persistence. Even at his peak he was never the same force on the sub-continent. The wickets are too low and slow. He was always a slow leggie who relied on bounce and zip, too slow through the air and off the wicket to be as effective over there. Anyway, he proved yet again that he's a class above Stuart McGill.

                      The Sri Lankans really blew it today. Batted very negatively, unlike yesterday when they played patiently but aggressively when the opportunity arose. They should've ended up 200+ in front. Then they came out and set negative fields instead of attacking us. As it is, we've now made up the difference with two down. Unfortunately, Hayden just ran out Ponting taking the single for his ton. Still, there's plenty of time for the spear chucker to run through us.

                      What is happening to us now is very reminiscent of what happened to the Wallabies after 99?
                      Pretty much. Player ageing and retirement means it has to be cyclical. You just have to hope you don't lose too many keys at once. And it's particularly damaging when your team relies very heavily on one player. We didn't rely on Eales to the extent that you relied on J****, but we still haven't replaced him. For that matter, we haven't really replaced Timmy Horan. Or Jason Little at his best. You mightn't find another J**** in terms of skills in a hurry, but you need someone to step into his leadership role. And much of that, unfortunately, relies on extraordinary personality. Hard to find.

                      Early signs are Clive plans to pick exactly the same failures next time . He needs to remember that when you coach an English side of any type you are only ever three losses away from the sack at most.
                      Oh well, he's now facing some acid tests. J**** was the strength, not Clive. Clive minus J**** will be interesting to watch.

                      Oh yes – our old mate Rod Kafer has been banned for six weeks for verbally abusing a referee last month. Kafer is now denied access to the touchline, playing enclosure, tunnel and changing rooms for the length of the ban – a bit tough given he is player-coach. What did he do? The referee blew full time as they lost 22-18 to Northampton when Rod thought his side should have been given a penalty under the oppo posts instead. His mistake – making the verbals very public indeed.
                      Saracens? Won't it be embarrassing if they lift during the six weeks? Kafer was reputed to have called John O'Neill a c*nt to his face, so nothing he said to a ref would surprise me.
                      " ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak
                      "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.

                      Comment


                      • Hey Tamerlin. There's a Jacques Tati Retrospective starting in Sydney this week. New prints of Jour de Fete, Les Vacances de M. Hulot, Mon Oncle and Playtime. I must try to get along. I hadn't realised that Playtime effectively sank him. Well, its failure - his audience rejected it - bankrupted him. Even though he went on to make Traffic, he died a bankrupt. Sad. Playtime is one of his best, IMHO. I'm sure a lot of those who rejected it at the time would see it differently now. And so it goes.

                        The ARU aren't going to miss Vodaphone in the slightest. Apparently they've already lined up $20 million of sponsorship - $5 million more than Vodaphone were paying - without having to resort to selling off the jersey.
                        " ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak
                        "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by finbar
                          Hey Tamerlin. There's a Jacques Tati Retrospective starting in Sydney this week. New prints of Jour de Fete, Les Vacances de M. Hulot, Mon Oncle and Playtime. I must try to get along. I hadn't realised that Playtime effectively sank him. Well, its failure - his audience rejected it - bankrupted him. Even though he went on to make Traffic, he died a bankrupt. Sad. Playtime is one of his best, IMHO. I'm sure a lot of those who rejected it at the time would see it differently now. And so it goes.
                          Don't miss this retrospective, these four movies are fantastic, without any doubt among the best movies I have ever seen.

                          I have seen two years ago the new print of Playtime and I consider it to be a tremenduous tribute to Tati's genius, magic and poetry. Believe me, you can't miss it...

                          Playtime was indeed rejected by the audience, I think that it did not understood this movie because Tati was really ahead of his time... really too far ahead. He invested his own money in the movie and was thus ruined. Many spectators had not seen the original movie and were greatly impressed by it, those that had seen the original copy (like me) discovered this great movie again and were enthralled again.

                          Though Traffic is largely underestimated I really like it, it's a pity most of the people don't know Jacques Tati did this movie after Playtime.
                          Last edited by Tamerlin; March 10, 2004, 21:07.
                          "Democracy is the worst form of government there is, except for all the others that have been tried." Sir Winston Churchill

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Tamerlin
                            Playtime was indeed rejected by the audience, I think that it did not understood this movie because Tati was really ahead of his time...
                            I suspect they weren't ready for the overtly satirical tone of it. At the same time, they probably hadn't realised that all his films to that point had been satirical to varying degrees. They hadn't seen past the gentle humour.

                            Though Traffic is largely underestimated I really like it, it's a pity most of the people don't know Jacques Tati did this movie after Playtime.
                            I love Traffic. Though I think his tiredness - sadness, whatever - is plainly obvious in it. Apparently he also did something for television after Playtime that also failed.
                            " ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak
                            "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.

                            Comment


                            • And what is not touring going to achieve? Comparisons with the boycott of South Africa over apartheid are ridiculous, IMHO.
                              The English situation is slightly different to the Australian. You are fellow ex colonials to the great murdering moron in charge over there – we were apparently the devil incarnate and the source of all ills for that sad nation (nicely ignoring the fact that the UK was one of the harshest critics of the former Rhodesia).

                              I actually think in this case the Cricket world should shun Zimbabwe tours until the incumbent is overthrown. I have no problem with them visiting here (I think WE can guarantee THEIR safety). But it’s that racism thing again – the sub continent sides will block any such move.

                              Still, there's plenty of time for the spear chucker to run through us.
                              Not so far.

                              It’s an amazing strength your sides have that their heads don’t go down after a bad first innings.

                              And much of that, unfortunately, relies on extraordinary personality. Hard to find.
                              Very hard. Dallaglio isn’t one that’s for sure.

                              Clive minus J**** will be interesting to watch.
                              It will. I think he could fall apart psychologically as I suspect he has bought into the hype around himself after the RWC and as things go wrong, well it must be someone else’s fault right?

                              J**** for England coach?

                              Kafer was reputed to have called John O'Neill a c*nt to his face, so nothing he said to a ref would surprise me.
                              The rumour is the air was a little blue.

                              Apparently they've already lined up $20 million of sponsorship - $5 million more than Vodaphone were paying - without having to resort to selling off the jersey.
                              Any idea who with?
                              It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Havak
                                The English situation is slightly different to the Australian. You are fellow ex colonials to the great murdering moron in charge over there – we were apparently the devil incarnate and the source of all ills for that sad nation (nicely ignoring the fact that the UK was one of the harshest critics of the former Rhodesia).
                                True. Particularly the last bit.

                                I actually think in this case the Cricket world should shun Zimbabwe tours until the incumbent is overthrown. I have no problem with them visiting here (I think WE can guarantee THEIR safety). But it’s that racism thing again – the sub continent sides will block any such move.
                                I'm not sure what not touring there will achieve. It won't get rid of the lunatic. It worked against apartheid but only in concert with a massive number of other measures. Anyway ...

                                It’s an amazing strength your sides have that their heads don’t go down after a bad first innings.
                                Mental strength, belief in themselves. That which, unfortunately, manifests itself in unpleasant ways from time to time. Harnessed, it's powerful. But the Sri Lankans really did lose the plot yesterday morning. Maybe because they didn't believe enough in themselves. They let us back in, and that's a terribly dangerous thing to do. In our second innings, we're doing what we didn't do in the first - patience, keeping out the good balls, punishing the bad. Hayden made a wonderful ton, but I watched him play and miss two and three times an over against Murali yesterday. Head down, start again.

                                I'm a big fan of Darren Lehmann. A throwback. Drinker and smoker, built like a blacksmith, out of shape in the modern scheme of things, but the best player of spin bowling in the team. He played a few seasons for Yorkshire. They loved him.

                                Very hard. Dallaglio isn’t one that’s for sure.
                                So who is there?

                                Any idea who with?
                                Telstra, amongst others. I know Telstra were happy to stump up very big money without wanting the jersey. It might not have been what Vodaphone were paying, but it's very big. Add to that a number of other, smaller sponsors and the Vodaphone figure was easily surpassed. More to come, too, apparently.
                                " ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak
                                "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.

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