Finnish justice system strikes again!

[Pekka]

Atahualpa, same here, everyone is speeding anyway. 10km/h is the 'you're not getting ticketed for this' speed and everyone does it, or you are like you said, a jammer.

[Az]

There are two sides of this story, the driving side, and the social side.

On the social side, I have nothing against the driver's fine being proportional to the drivers income. I think it's great.

On the driving side, I think that speed limits on freeways are stupid. I think there are things that truly show if a person is careful or not. Speed ain't one of them. I am all too familiar myself with this. Going 60mph on a completely empty main road and being summoned to court just because the speed limit there was 35mph ( because noone bothered putting the sign there, though the road was 3 lanes wide), have my trial scheduled in the beginning of April.

[Atahualpa]

Yeah and the worst thing is they build streets and then they allow ppl to settle near this streets who then in turn complain about the traffic and what not.

I mean there are so many traffic going through some villages which is clearly not okay.
But any street they build round the village ppl will try to settle there.

[Az]

well, you see that's the nature of humans:

Rule #1: Create settlements near important Junctions.
Rule #2: Moan.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
I think this is a good idea.

Why? If you don't believe that a reasonable fine will deter someone, take thier license from them.

[Az]

So do you think that rich people must have their licenses revoked when caught speeding?

[DinoDoc]

No. I think the same standard of justice should apply to both poor and rich people. That's why I don't agree with such idiotic concepts as progressive sentencing that seem quite popular in this thread.

[The Templar]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
No. I think the same standard of justice should apply to both poor and rich people. That's why I don't agree with such idiotic concepts as progressive sentencing that seem quite popular in this thread.

Uh! As I said above:

"Why should a poor person have to pay .1% of their yearly income while the rich pay .0000001% of their income on the same offense. The rich and the poor should be treated equally under the law."

If you charge by flat percentage of income then you are treating the rich and the poor equally.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by The Templar
Uh! As I said above:

We aren't taxing these people. If you can give me a good reason why the same crime should have differing punishments based on who you are, I'd be willing to listen.

[The Templar]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
We aren't taxing these people. If you can give me a good reason why the same crime should have differing punishments based on who you are, I'd be willing to listen.

It is the same punishment - i.e. x percent of your income. How is fining the exact same percentage not the same punishment?

[Itse Perkele]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


They worked hard for their money. Why should they redistribute his money to everyone else?

This guy just got a huge legacy.

[laurentius]

I fail to understand Pekkas need to bash everything finnish, you can almost smell his bitterness and cynicism. In contrast to the lies and bad guesses about finnish crime and justice system heres how american officials see things:

"...Finnish police services are excellent; however, some police officers speak little English....Street crimes, such as muggings and pickpocketing, remain relatively uncommon, but do occur.

Safety of Public Transportation: Excellent
Urban Road Condition/Maintenance: Excellent
Rural Road Condition/Maintenance: Excellent
Availability of Roadside Assistance: Excellent

Travelers should be aware that drunk-driving laws are strict, and acceptable blood alcohol levels are much lower in Finland than in the U.S. Police strictly enforce all traffic laws and institute random roadside Breathalyzer tests. Those drivers who register a .05 or above alcohol content are subject to immediate arrest...... Penalties for breaking the law can be more severe than in the United States for similar offenses. Persons violating Finland's laws, even unknowingly, may be expelled, arrested or imprisoned. Penalties for possession, use, or trafficking in illegal drugs in Finland are strict and convicted offenders can expect jail sentences and heavy fines."

http://travel.state.gov/finland.html

More:

"Finland & Sweden: Jail - 1 year hard labor plus fines. NOTE: in Finland, if an individual yields a vehicle to someone guilty of drunk driving, they will be fined or imprisoned for up to 1 year."

http://www.drinkingdriving.net/

And from a finnish site:

"Suomessa jää vuosittain kiinni noin 20 000 rattijuoppoa. Muiden Pohjoismaiden tavoin rattijuopumus Suomessa on useimpiin maihin verrattuna poikkeuksellisen vähäistä. Kiinnijääneiden suuri määrä kertookin paljolti valvonnan tehokkuudesta. Tiukalla valvonnalla ja melko ankarilla rangaistuksilla on tukenaan kansalaisten laaja hyväksyntä."

tr.(bad)

"20 000 drunk drivers are caught annually in Finland. Along with other Nordic countries drunk driving in Finland is exceptionally rare compared to most other countries. The large amount of offenders caught annually is mainly due of the exellent surveillance. Strict surveillance and relatively harsh punisments have the backing of the majority of citizens."

http://www.paihdelinkki.fi/tietopankki/100_tietolinja/131.htm

That is how things really are outside Pekkas imagination. About the fines, yes I too think progressive fines are good, but with 100 000 euro limit.

[Az]

No. I think the same standard of justice should apply to both poor and rich people.

has nothing to do with

That's why I don't agree with such idiotic concepts as progressive sentencing that seem quite popular in this thread.

There is no progressive sentencing. It's sentencing as a flat percentage of the the wage, so that both rich and poor would be equally deterred from commiting the crime, and in the same time, without taking their licence away.

[Ben Kenobi]

This guy just got a huge legacy.

Not sure what you mean here.

Are you trying to say I'm rich?

[Nubclear]

heres how american officials see things:

OOOH! How CREDIBLE!
Pekka.....Lauri sure got you beat. I mean, the AMERICANS are calling your justice system GREAT