Paul Berman offers a different view on Iraq and leftism

[Theben]

The other thing about the scale is that at extreme ends it meets together (aka anarchism/libertarianism).

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

God. This thread's gone to the arse-end of hell on a skateboard.

[chequita guevara]

Don't you have small children to go frighten?

[Theben]

You could try picking it up from where it last made sense.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Theben
You could try picking it up from where it last made sense.

nah, as the thread starter i suggest abandoning it and starting over with something else.

[Ramo]

If you'd prefer (actually, I would as well - these debates never end ), I'll drop the debate.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I've been thinking about this since yesterday, trying to figure out what the disparate ideologies share that qualifies them left or right. I think this is it.

Property. The further right you go, the more absolute the belief in the right of proerpty. The further left you go, the less. This is the only way you can get Stalinists and anarchists anywhere near each other on a political scale. The same goes for fascists and libertarians.

So on this scale, anarchists are the farthest to the left, while libertarians are the farthest to the right. Th further left you go, the more you believe in the right of society to interfere with private property untill you reach the socialists, where it goes from total regulation to the abolition of private property, giving way to communal and/or state property, and ultimately the abolition of property altogether.

Interesting framing of left and right.

[Kidlicious]

There are political issues that have nothing to do with the issue of private property though. Equal treatment is a better measure.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

I prefer Che's measuring stick moreso than equal treatmennt. As definitions of equal treatment are too fuzzy.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
I prefer Che's measuring stick moreso than equal treatmennt. As definitions of equal treatment are too fuzzy.

Either you believe in equal treatment or you don't. There's no fuzz.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Either you believe in equal treatment or you don't. There's no fuzz.

I'd edit post quickly. cuz no way that statement is standing up to scrutiny.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by yavoon


I'd edit post quickly. cuz no way that statement is standing up to scrutiny.

Well some people claim to believe that inequality is equality, but that's just all crap of course.

[Berzerker]

Chegitz -

Property. The further right you go, the more absolute the belief in the right of proerpty. The further left you go, the less. This is the only way you can get Stalinists and anarchists anywhere near each other on a political scale. The same goes for fascists and libertarians.

But Ramo is an anarchist and he has far more respect for property than either Fascists or Stalinists, in fact, his brand of anarchism is quite similar to libertarianism. And you think fascists and libertarians have a ~similar respect for private property? The fascists went around stealing from millions of people just like the communists...

So on this scale, anarchists are the farthest to the left, while libertarians are the farthest to the right. The further left you go, the more you believe in the right of society to interfere with private property untill you reach the socialists, where it goes from total regulation to the abolition of private property, giving way to communal and/or state property, and ultimately the abolition of property altogether.

Anarchism should be on the right end with libertarianism since both want to dramatically minimise state interference in our lives. Anarchists generally reject authority (the state) so how can they be at the left end that believes "society" (the state) has the "right" to interfere completely?

[Ben Kenobi]

As definitions of equal treatment are too fuzzy.

Agreed. Che's system seems to do a good job.

[Ned]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I've been thinking about this since yesterday, trying to figure out what the disparate ideologies share that qualifies them left or right. I think this is it.

Property. The further right you go, the more absolute the belief in the right of proerpty. The further left you go, the less. This is the only way you can get Stalinists and anarchists anywhere near each other on a political scale. The same goes for fascists and libertarians.

So on this scale, anarchists are the farthest to the left, while libertarians are the farthest to the right. Th further left you go, the more you believe in the right of society to interfere with private property untill you reach the socialists, where it goes from total regulation to the abolition of private property, giving way to communal and/or state property, and ultimately the abolition of property altogether.

On this scale, fascists would clearly be to the left of the American center and even to the left of the Democrat Party, as no Democrat, save Dean, advocates as much interference with private propery as the fascists.