My big problem with Christianity

[CharlesBHoff]

Originally posted by CharlesBHoff
When the Protant revolt start in Europe it split the once
unitif Western Roman Catholate Church into many peices that didnot talk to each other for a long time, the only time they talk was to hurled insults at each other, some protant call the Pope at that time than anti-Christ and the Catholate called the Protant leaders anti-Chirst.
They didnot really start to talk to each other untril 1960's. Whele the Islamic world have is split alot early in the beginning it never was as hostle as the Protant and Catholate split that took part in the 1400's and it was never as bitter as the Christian breaking up.

[Mr. Harley]

Whele the Islamic world have is split alot early in the beginning it never was as hostle as the Protant and Catholate split that took part in the 1400's and it was never as bitter as the Christian breaking up.

Hmm, I suspect many Shia and Sufi might not agree, let alone B'hai (who do aknowledge the Allah as the prophet, making them heretics and properly subject to persecution as per the Koran).

Plus, Islam works differently. Instead look at the number of Imam's who have started another fundamentalist furor, the history of Spain is a good starter. After the conquest by Islam, it was more or less tolerant (though non-Moslem's had to accept second class citizenship that also marginalized them economically, they had to pay higher taxes). After another group of Moslems, still technically Sunni I believe, came and conquered the original conquerors, it became a rather unpleasant place for any non-Moslem to live.

[Dr Strangelove]

You have to realise that Islam never had the centralized clerical organization that Christianity had. Historically in Islam the military/political leadership of a country were also the religious leadership. Originally Islam grew as a single united religious empire, but that state did not last very long. In a way, the political splits in the early islam community were also religious splits. The first major schism is today perserved in the continued existence of the Sunni and Shiite sects, but even these sects did not maintain their unity intact for long. Thus each new Islamic state that became a seperate entity represents both a political and a religious conflict. if you consider this, then Islam has indeed suffered recurring break ups, most of which were indeed quite bitter and bloody.

[curtsibling]

My big problem with Christianity?

It's their big problem with me.

They can't accept the fact that my mindset represents freedom from their mind-control.

[Sava]

my problem with Christianity (aside from the illogical and irrational philosophical implications) is mostly with the hypocrisy of it's followers... and also the arrogance that some Christians display. Take Mel Gibson for example. He really believes God inspired him to make that Passions movie... he also said "God was with us during production". I'm sorry, but with millions starving, dying of disease, war, etc... I find the notion that God is on the set with some pampered dope movie star to be offensive. It illustrates the ignorant and arrogant view that some Christians have. Also, when athletes point to the sky when they accomplish something (score a touchdown, hit a home run, etc...). It's like saying God wanted them to win and others to lose.

Most of my complaints are with some Christians, not the religion itself. The religion itself has inherent flaws and was obvious the creation of human beings. The fact that people try to portray their religion as "the word or will of God" is offensive to me.

oh, and also, all the wars and stuff done in God's name...

[curtsibling]

Human base emotions tend to screw up seemingly good ideas.

But religions should be updated to suit the current world situations.

Sadly they don't.

They don't tolerate liberty.
Hence, I don't tolerate religion.

[Ned]

Originally posted by curtsibling
My big problem with Christianity?

It's their big problem with me.

They can't accept the fact that my mindset represents freedom from their mind-control.

Mind control?

You sound like George Romney.

[curtsibling]

How would you know what Romney sounded like?

Since he died in 1802.

[Ned]

George Romney, governor of Michigan, was leading in the polls for the Republican nomination in 1968 when he went to Vietnam for a personal inspection and assessment of what was going on in the war. When he returned he said that he had been "brainwashed" by the US military, essentially meaning that he had been shown a pack of lies by the military intent on showing that we were succeeding in Vietnam and that there was a so-called " light at the end of the tunnel." However, the media and Romney's political opponents quickly focused on the statement to show that there was something essentially unsound about George Romney. He quickly plummeted in the polls and withdrew from the presidential race prior to the New Hampshire primary, essentially giving the Republican nomination to Richard Nixon.

From that time, people who say that they can be successfully influenced by the mind control efforts of others have been considered of slightly unsound mind themselves.

[Mr. Harley]

Remember one thing. The Catholic Church, Southern Baptists, Sunni, Shia, et al are RELIGIONS. Mans' nterptation of the divine. Mysticism and Spirituality often get lost in the translation,and it can be argued that the Gnostic Books of the Bible and the early Church heirarchy represented this tension very well. The Sufi and Sunni represent a similiar conflict within Islam. In a conflict between sprituality versus organization and hierarchy the latter usually win out, it's the very nature of how conflicts work. Then a new wave of Spirituality and Mysticism will occur as the religion wanders further and further away from it's most truly fundamental roots. All religions of the Old Book have the cycle, I'm not as familiar with the Hindu's and Buddists. So one can be very spiritual with out being religious, and vice versa.

[curtsibling]

@Ned:

LOL!

I thought you meant George Romney, the 19th century artist!

And about your jibe:
"From that time, people who say that they can be successfully influenced by the mind control efforts of others have been considered of slightly unsound mind themselves."

I hardly let my own opinions be influenced by the fortunes of some 1960's American politician.

That in itself would be a bit mad, don't you think?

And what I meant is this:
Early-life indoctrination to retain the religionist grip over youth amounts to mind-control.
As they will carry out the same act with their kids in turn...

Never ending loop.

Compris?

[Ned]

Curt, yes. But don't all parents try to impart their beliefs to their kids? This is not a matter of religion at all.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Sava
my problem with Christianity (aside from the illogical and irrational philosophical implications) is mostly with the hypocrisy of it's followers... and also the arrogance that some Christians display. Take Mel Gibson for example. He really believes God inspired him to make that Passions movie... he also said "God was with us during production". I'm sorry, but with millions starving, dying of disease, war, etc... I find the notion that God is on the set with some pampered dope movie star to be offensive. It illustrates the ignorant and arrogant view that some Christians have. Also, when athletes point to the sky when they accomplish something (score a touchdown, hit a home run, etc...). It's like saying God wanted them to win and others to lose.

Most of my complaints are with some Christians, not the religion itself. The religion itself has inherent flaws and was obvious the creation of human beings. The fact that people try to portray their religion as "the word or will of God" is offensive to me.

oh, and also, all the wars and stuff done in God's name...

Well, if you want to believe that creating you was a big mistake then go right ahead. I for my part will continue to pray for you in the hopes that some day you may regain your self-esteem.
With regards to Mel Gibson, how do you know that Mr. Gibson hasn't done a lot for world hunger? Is it possible that people inspired by his movie will go out and give more of themselves to help allieviate world suffering? After all, that is a part of the religion. What have you done for the world's needy? Anything? How's about we go and start a poll and ask the 'poly crowd whether they're Christians or not and whether they regularily set aside something for the poor, and how much they set aside? Which side do you think will win?

[Dr Strangelove]

Re: My big problem with Christianity

Originally posted by The Templar
Can someone explain -

What was the point of the whole Jesus being Crucified thing? I know Jesus supposedly died for our sins, but

• How does one suffer in order to earn forgiveness for another for that other's sin? Aren't individuals responsible for their own sins? And if they are not responsible, how can they be held accountable in the first place?
• God is all powerful, why not just forgive people? What does God suffering really add to the whole forgiveness equation?

I don't get it.

Jesus came down to Earth to change the relationship between God and people, in part by sharing the pain and suffering of human existence, in part by teaching and healing, and in part by establishing a new church to provide continual guidance. As Ben pointed out, prior to Jesus's appearence Jews made sacrices in order to atone for sins. Christ's sacrifice made an end to that ritual, no longer could a person pay back God for sins / crimes. Christ showed the world that God was not a tyrant or an unbending taskmaster, but instead that He understood our predicament and that He loved us to the point of making a sacrifice for us. Christ's death is the paramount example of the saying: "No greater love hath any man for another than he shall lay down his life."

[Dis]

I like the fact that jesus dies for my sins. That way I can sin all I want and still go to heavean

okay you have to have faith in jesus crist as your personal saviour or something like that. I'm not sure if I have that. But just before I die, I will have faith in Jesus crist as my lord and saviour