If the US civil war was fought today...

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by TCO
Oh...and could you get Ming to start some sports thread, so I can troll his azz? I am drinking, need an outlet, and like you too much.

If you or I were slaves, pretty much any means to end slavery that didn't kill us or cost us a limb or two would be fine.

I'm harder to troll nowadays, since I'm not online much after work hours, but I started your thread - let's see if it goes anywhere.

I'm having a hard time getting into the Patriots and Panthers, but I figured if all else failed, I'd go for a good ol' Cajun boy QB.

[Ned]

MtG, Cause and effect. The real question is who crossed the line first. That is easy to tell if the line is who fired the first shot. But if you move the line just a bit, well perhaps Lincoln started it.

But, as I take it, your main contention is the election of Lincoln was the last straw in a haystack of Northern abuse of Southern rights.

Is this closer?

[Capt Dizle]

Originally posted by Ned
MtG, Cause and effect. The real question is who crossed the line first. That is easy to tell if the line is who fired the first shot. But if you move the line just a bit, well perhaps Lincoln started it.

But, as I take it, your main contention is the election of Lincoln was the last straw in a haystack of Northern abuse of Southern rights.

Is this closer?

I'll jump in with my two cents. Please pardon me. The Republican party had just about settled on a policy allowing for the perpetual right of slavery in limited areas but this was not good enough for the agitator Lincoln who declared in his speech at the Republican Party in 1858 that " a house divided cannot stand". Most Americans do not understand the context and think that it refers somehow to the issue of Union. It did not. It was Lincoln's declaration that the country would have to be either all slave or none at all. This created the crisis that led to sucession. It was all Abe's doing. If he had not taken that radical stance there probably would not have been this terrible conflict, but Abe would probably not have been elected. In other words, one million men died due to Abe's political aspirations. Not quite Stalin like numbers but a pretty impressive butcher's bill for this side of the Atlantic.

[Ned]

I agree that the South seceeded because of the speech and because Lincoln was elected.

I disagree that he gave the speech only because of his political ambition.

[Ned]

Also, if it is true that the Republican party was about to compromise on the issue of slavery and Lincoln prevented that, I am glad he did. It goes to show just how important one man's stand for the right can be.

[Capt Dizle]

Hey, Ned. I'll be willing to cede the point and accept that Abe was acting on his conscience as soon as the Yanks round here are willing to stipulate that Davis and other Southern leaders were doing likewise.

Maybe if the demonizations can end we can someday stop fighting this war.

[Capt Dizle]

Originally posted by Ned
Also, if it is true that the Republican party was about to compromise on the issue of slavery and Lincoln prevented that, I am glad he did. It goes to show just how important one man's stand for the right can be.

So basically you are willing to swap the blood of a million dead to speed up the end of a dying institution by a few years?

As I have said before, slavery is a moral wrong, almost as bad as abortion. I am not however, willing to see a million of my countymen die to force a stop to that barbaric institution.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by PLATO
First of all...GO MTG GO!!!

Second of all...It was the north that committed treason. They were the ones that were unfaithful to the Constitution.

Third of all...MrFun, Where is this "professor" degreed from? The "Lost Cause" mythology that you continually refer to is nothing more than Yankee propoganda (as I continually remind you).

I'm not saying that white Southerners still adhere to the Lost Cause because they believe that slavery was a good thing today.

I'm saying that the Lost Cause allows white Southerners to DENY historical accuracy, and scholarly work that presents slavery as being the cause of the Civil War.

[TCO]

**** the south. I gotta deal with these people in Richmond. city is more still beleiveing it is a capital ofanbother mythical country than Charleston or Savannha. It is incase. Just go to Holoy mwood cemetary and you will see.

[Capt Dizle]

Originally posted by MrFun




I'm not saying that white Southerners still adhere to the Lost Cause because they believe that slavery was a good thing today.

I'm saying that the Lost Cause allows white Southerners to DENY historical accuracy, and scholarly work that presents slavery as being the cause of the Civil War.

Well, then. The "Winner Gets To Write The History" thing allows Northerners to DENY historical accuracy, scholarly work and PLAIN FACT that slavery was not the cause of the War of Northern Agression.

[TCO]

jim,my,

you gaddamned racist. Frigging recneck.

[Capt Dizle]

This is what southerner Edwards is getting from his showing in that Yankee State.



How do you like it?

[Capt Dizle]

Edwards was born in South Carolina. One of his ancestors probably pissed on the walls of Ft. Sumter.

How do you like it?

Do you hear me now?

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
So basically you are willing to swap the blood of a million dead to speed up the end of a dying institution by a few years?

As I have said before, slavery is a moral wrong, almost as bad as abortion. I am not however, willing to see a million of my countymen die to force a stop to that barbaric institution.

Did you support the war in Iraq? How about fighting Hitler?

If you believe war is always wrong, at least then you'll have been consistent. I suspect, however, that isn't the case. If so, then a refusal to fight to end slavery within one's own country is positively immoral.

[St Leo]

Didn't Hitler's Reich declare war on everyone it ended up fighting?