German atrocities in WWII, systematic or just like everyone else?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar


Finally some sanity.
I mean come on NYE. Can you even mention a time when the US ever commited even one atrocity?

They are mean to lumber jacks!

*cue Monty Python*

[Ned]

Originally posted by Tingkai


What in the world are you talking about?

During WWII, the British did not slaughter/rape like the Germans did. The Brits never had concentration camps akin to the German ones. The Brits did not murder POWs like the Germans and Russians did. Brit soldiers did not commit mass rapes like Russian troops did in 45. The Brits did not murder civilians for political reasons liek the Germans and the Russians.

Your comparison of the Brits to the Germans and the Russians is simply stupid.

Ask some of our German posters here what they think of Bomber Harris.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Ned
Why is the question we have to ask. Europe was supposed to be a civilized place. The whole of Europe was Christian and most of it lived under the rule of law and had so for hundreds of years.

I can only contrast the relatively civilized conduct of most Americans to the conduct of virtually everyone else.

Don't get on your high horse on this one. What happened in Germany and Japan during the 30s and WWII could easily happen in the States, or any other country.

One of the main reasons why were the Germans so willing to murder millions was Nazi propaganda? For six years before WWII, the Nazi propaganda created fear and hatred towards Jews, communists and other so-called "undesirables".

The constant repetition of the Nazi lies, built on existing prejudices, convinced the Germans that they were the "master race" and that Jews and Eastern Europeans were sub-human. Once this fear and hatred was developed it was easy to create killing machines.

The same thing could happen in the US. Many Americans are afraid of Black Americans. It would be easy to convince these people that all blacks are criminals, ignorant, lazy and dangerous. After years of proganda, these people could then be turned against black people. Mind you, the democracy of the US makes it difficult for a Nazi-like party to gain power, but the foundations are there to create the killing hate..

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Ned
Ask some of our German posters here what they think of Bomber Harris.

And the USAF was kinder to Japan?

[Tingkai]

[SIZE=1] Originally posted by Ned [/SIZE
Ask some of our German posters here what they think of Bomber Harris.

Bomber Command and the concentration camps are completely different.

The use of mass bombings was founded on the belief that it would shorten the war by destroying the other nation's military capacity.

The concentration camps, murder of POWS, etc, had no military purpose.

And if you condemn the Brits bombing attacks then you must also condemn the American bombing attacks.

By the way, you claim that the Brits committed mass rapes. Admit that you're wrong about that.

[Drake Tungsten]

One of the main reasons why were the Germans so willing to murder millions was Nazi propaganda? For six years before WWII, the Nazi propaganda created fear and hatred towards Jews, communists and other so-called "undesirables".

The constant repetition of the Nazi lies, built on existing prejudices, convinced the Germans that they were the "master race" and that Jews and Eastern Europeans were sub-human. Once this fear and hatred was developed it was easy to create killing machines.

You're ignoring the culturally based acceptance of authoritarianism present in both Japanese and German societies, something that doesn't exist in the US, UK and other countries.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
You're ignoring the culturally based acceptance of authoritarianism present in both Japanese and German societies, something that doesn't exist in the US, UK and other countries.

I mentioned that American democracy would make it difficult for a Nazi-like party to gain power.

Americans are more anti-authority than other countries. That attitude is less prevalent in democratic countries like the Britain, France, Canada, etc.

But I think this attitude could be diminished through affective "marketing" of an authoritarian party.

[Drake Tungsten]

My point is that I don't think Americans would willingly follow orders to gas millions of people to death. Our culture has "programmed" us to automatically question and resist abuses of power like that.

[notyoueither]

One of the main reasons why were the Germans so willing to murder millions was Nazi propaganda? For six years before WWII, the Nazi propaganda created fear and hatred towards Jews, communists and other so-called "undesirables".

The constant repetition of the Nazi lies, built on existing prejudices, convinced the Germans that they were the "master race" and that Jews and Eastern Europeans were sub-human. Once this fear and hatred was developed it was easy to create killing machines.

The same thing could happen in the US. Many Americans are afraid of Black Americans. It would be easy to convince these people that all blacks are criminals, ignorant, lazy and dangerous. After years of proganda, these people could then be turned against black people. Mind you, the democracy of the US makes it difficult for a Nazi-like party to gain power, but the foundations are there to create the killing hate.

I don't buy that either.

An ideology of hatred and oppression gained power in a young democracy which lacked the checks to stop it. The Nazis made sure to look after the 'average' German and so maintained support, even though thugs were running things in a way that most would not have approved, if they had known it AND been free to speak of it. I think it is telling that the real slaughter did not begin until well into the war and was carried out in occupied territories.

In the end, I think the German people were nearly as much the victims of the Nazis as were the other claimants to grievances.

I doubt very much that the same things could happen today in Germany, or America.

[Saras]

Tin, read the amazon description of the black edelweiss (re: our beef over whether or not sometimes the waffen SS were honourable and chivalrous.)

[Tingkai]

Saras: That description provides no factual examples of the SS being chivalrous.

What we have instead is an SS veteran claiming 50 years after the fact that he and his comrades were great guys and that it was them other folks that committed the atrocities.

Surely you recognise that the author cannot be a neutral observer and that the author has a motive for making the Waffen SS look like ordinary soldiers.

But anyways, why don't you quote the book and provide us with an example of Waffen SS chivalry.

[notyoueither]

Not that they were a good bunch of drinking buddies, but there was a difference between the Waffen (or fighting) SS and the camp guards, death squads, and the Gestapo.

[Saras]

Originally posted by Tingkai
What we have instead is an SS veteran claiming 50 years after the fact that he and his comrades were great guys and that it was them other folks that committed the atrocities.

The guy wrote the book 1945-1946 while in American captivity.

Surely you recognise that the author cannot be a neutral observer and that the author has a motive for making the Waffen SS look like ordinary soldiers.

Everything he wrote was corroborated to the maximum possible extent by the publishers. There are "mirror" books even, written by the the people that passes trough the authors gunsight the "other side of the hill".

I'll quote it from home. Iirc, you can now search the inside of a book on amazon?

[Tingkai]

NYE: That's a big part of this whole debate. Years ago, I also used to think that the Waffen SS were just soldiers, but the more I've read, the more it has become apparent that the Waffen-SS committed atrocities on a routine basis. The German Army was also responsible for excessive atrocities, such as the three million Russian POWs who died in captivity.

[notyoueither]

Tingkai, that is true. The Waffen SS did bad things, as did other soldiers. Maybe they did more, most likely they did. However, you are aware that Canadians had episodes of 'not taking prisoners', yes?