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  • Man sues church to get donation back



    Minn. Man Wants Church Donation Back


    CLOQUET, Minn. (AP) -- A 55-year-old man is suing a local church because it won't give back a $126,000 donation he gave during a deep depression five years ago.

    Marcel Mager, of Cloquet, said he made the anonymous donation during a time of emotional distress and thought giving the church money would ease his pain. His wife had left him two weeks prior to the January 1999 donation. It was nearly their entire life savings.

    After five months of antidepressants and counseling, Mager said he asked for the money back. But leaders at the Cloquet Gospel Tabernacle church said no. They had already used the money for new family ministry space.

    Mager told the head pastor, the Rev. Richard Doebler, he was not of sound mind when he made the donation.

    "I was really confused at the time, really depressed," said Mager, an unemployed optometrist. "I didn't even confide in my wife that I had done it."

    The church board held the line: Mager gave them the money, and churches nationwide have historically not given donations back - no matter the circumstances.

    Mager quietly lobbied the church board and Doebler for the money to be returned. Years passed, and Mager lost hope for a quiet resolution.

    He filed a lawsuit against the church in 2002. The two sides have been exchanging paperwork ever since, with no immediate legal end in sight.

    "It's clear they aren't concerned about me, they only want my money," Mager said last week. He decided to go public in the hopes that the church will give back the money.

    Mager might have a difficult time getting his money back in court, said Richard Hammar, an expert in church law and tax code in Springfield, Mo. Hammar publishes a nationwide newsletter on church finances, Church Law & Tax Report.

    Mager's only hope is to prove he was not of sound mind when he made the donation, Hammar said.

    But that can be extremely difficult because families of people with more permanent mental ailments - such as Alzheimer's disease - have failed to get large donations overturned, Hammar said. "He really has an uphill battle."

    Even more rare is for a church to willingly give back a donation, Hammar said. "I tell people that if they do that, they better open up an office for everybody to come make their case," he said.

    Mager's change of heart is confounding to church leaders because the letter he sent with the cashier's check seemed so genuine, Doebler said.

    "He felt some remorse for some past actions and he wanted to make it right with God," Doebler said, recounting the letter. "At the time, we were taking it on good faith that this is what he wanted. It was hard to know what we were dealing with since it was anonymous."

    Church leaders feel really bad about the situation, Doebler said. "We'd have preferred to work it out amiably."

    Mager insists he didn't donate the money to spite his wife, but merely hoped it would lead to some spiritual relief. In fact, his now ex-wife told the church to keep the money.
    What an idiot. "Well, money didn't buy me happiness so I want it back. Let me try this again"

  • #2
    If he can show that at the time his mental state made him incapable of rendering a competent decision, then he should get the money back, of course.

    But I doubt that will be provable--indeed, depression isn't normally considered grounds for mental incompetency. So legally I'd say he's screwed.

    However, I'd think the "Christian" thing to do for the church would be to return the money regardless.
    Tutto nel mondo è burla

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    • #3
      Tomorrow's sermon: Indian givers go to hell.
      Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012

      When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah

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      • #4
        If this guy gets his money back, next thing you know, charitable organizations other than churches will have to give back donations years after getting them 'cause somebody had a change of heart. Maybe a liberal becomes a conservative and demands his/her money back from a liberal cause ... or vice-versa.

        My point? 'Tis a big can of worms that could be opened up here.

        Gatekeeper
        "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll die defending your right to say it." — Voltaire

        "Wheresoever you go, go with all your heart." — Confucius

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        • #5
          Damn. I'm going to open a church.
          "Stuie has the right idea" - Japher
          "I trust Stuie and all involved." - SlowwHand
          "Stuie is right...." - Guynemer

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          • #6
            Or, how would you like it if somebody gave you a $5,000 gift/grant/charity donation in 2003, you spent it, and they come back at you in 2005 wanting their money back 'cause they were allegedly not competent at the time of they gave you the money? That's unfair ...

            Gatekeeper
            "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll die defending your right to say it." — Voltaire

            "Wheresoever you go, go with all your heart." — Confucius

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            • #7
              The point being he wasn't of sound mind when he made his donation. Legally he shouldn't be held responsible if that is, in fact, the case.
              Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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              • #8
                Of for ****'s sake! The guy did something very stupid when he wasn't thinking clearly... this happens all the time. The difference here is in scale - $126,000 is a lot of money. However, THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T MAKE CRUCIAL DECISIONS WHEN YOU'RE UPSET.

                I don't see why the Church should have to give his money back.

                -Arrian
                grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by chegitz guevara
                  The point being he wasn't of sound mind when he made his donation. Legally he shouldn't be held responsible if that is, in fact, the case.
                  He also made the donation anonymously. He's responsible unless the other party knew or should have known that he was incompetent - a standard the church could not meet with an anonymous donation.
                  When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

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                  • #10
                    There is absolutely NO reason he should get the money back. If the church receives a donation and puts it to use (whatever that use is doesn't matter) they should not be responsible for paying it back when someone goes back on it. Sound mind or not...
                    "Chegitz, still angry about the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991?
                    You provide no source. You PROVIDE NOTHING! And yet you want to destroy capitalism.. you criminal..." - Fez

                    "I was hoping for a Communist utopia that would last forever." - Imran Siddiqui

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                    • #11
                      Maybe if a few days went by and they still had the money in cash. Now they have spent it on the family center, something they probobly couldn't have afforded otherwise, and they don't have the option of returning it whether they want to or not. Does he want them to raise 126,000 more in quarters and ones so they can give it back? Sell half the church back or just give it to him?

                      It just isn't reasonable.
                      Last edited by Patroklos; January 13, 2004, 16:49.
                      "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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                      • #12
                        I doubt that the church even HAS
                        $126,000 available to give.
                        "I predict your ignore will rival Ben's" - Ecofarm
                        ^ The Poly equivalent of:
                        "I hope you can see this 'cause I'm [flipping you off] as hard as I can" - Ignignokt the Mooninite

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                        • #13
                          If he can show that at the time his mental state made him incapable of rendering a competent decision, then he should get the money back, of course.


                          He donated anonymously, so how could the church know? Most chuches would rather know who their donors are, so they can give them tax credits, but they also respect those who give anonymously in not wanting to recieve earthly praise for their giving. Short of asking every member of the congregation if they donated this large check, and with no guarantee that the person who did would step forward, I think the church had no option but to accept the money.

                          Secondly, Emperor Fabulous has a good point. That money has been used by the church for good works. They should show the man what has been done with his money, and later ask if he would want all this to be torn down. It's not reasonable to expect the church to repay the man, since the church is not a bank with lots of cash on hand.
                          Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                          "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                          2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                          • #14
                            Ben, the understanding with him proving mental competency for legal purposes is that the Church would have had been reasonably able to discern such a thing, absolutely--thought that was a given.

                            But let's say he hadn't given it anonymously. What if he had given them the money, and he showed obvious signs of not being in his right mind, signs obvious enough that the church couldn't reasonably have not known he was mentally deranged. Were that the case, I'd say they were wrong to take his money and should have to pay it back, no matter what they've done with it or if they can afford to return it.

                            On a side note, I wish more people were suing unscrupulous televangelists who broadcast baldface lies on their programs to solicit donations. They should be charged with theft.
                            Tutto nel mondo è burla

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                            • #15
                              Boris

                              I would expect that to be the case, that the church would give his money back. They would prefer a giver to give freely, and not under compulsion. That's why the second half of his statement seems so puzzling, that all the church wants is the man's money. They can't help him unless he asks for their help in counselling. When I first started going to church I was depressed, but I asked for help from the church, and they did a good job with me. I never needed to go on meds.
                              Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                              "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                              2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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