Communist Education?

[chequita guevara]

Why are our "votes" as consumers more important than our votes as citizens?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Agathon


You don't understand. The very same logic that makes self interest provide socially beneficial outcomes in market competition also prevents other socially beneficial outcomes from coming to pass.

I understand what you are saying completely. I simply disagree.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


I understand what you are saying completely. I simply disagree.

You can't disagree, it's simply a matter of logic. If everyone acts self interestedly the outcome in such situations is always less than optimal.

You are like someone who says 2 and 2 is 5.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by GePap



The question is, what are the priorities. The market, to work "wisely", if that is possible, the people choosing must be well informed. badly informed consumers will make bad choices- they could do no better, their informartion is bad. That is the point of advertising, to infrom the consumer, and why the state must stop false advertising, becuase it warps the market. But false advertisement, or better yet, lack of information about what is actually best for people is a key problem of the market today: in many ways, people don't have a way to know how a choice will really affect them or anyone else.

Now you get to a good point.

Prioritization based upon best known info. If one assumes that the plethora of information available is overwhelming and that choices are made are essentially blind or misinformed, what makes you think a smaller selcet group would have the wherewithal to make good decision. Ohh... I forgot they are the superuberhuman class right?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


I understand what you are saying completely. I simply disagree.

Its the classic prisoners dilema:

Neither talk: both get off. Both talk: both get 20 years. one talks, he gets 5, the other guy 35 years in prison.

Which is the optimal choice for a prisoner, given that they are alone, without being able to discuss with each other what will they do?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Why are our "votes" as consumers more important than our votes as citizens?

Because as citizens we have no right to choose productions. That is reserved for the property owners.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by GePap


Its the classic prisoners dilema:

Neither talk: both get off. Both talk: both get 20 years. one talks, he gets 5, the other guy 35 years in prison.

Which is the optimal choice for a prisoner, given that they are alone, without being able to discuss with each other what will they do?

Shouldna done the crime in the first place.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


Now you get to a good point.

Prioritization based upon best known info. If one assumes that the plethora of information available is overwhelming and that choices are made are essentially blind or misinformed, what makes you think a smaller selcet group would have the wherewithal to make good decision. Ohh... I forgot they are the superuberhuman class right?

You spoke of masses- in a sense, the masses AS CITIZENS, can ELECT people to make central priorities, and give them the resources to investigate things they as individuals could not possibly do, thus having better (if not perfect) information with which to make decisions as to how to allocate goods..sounds almost like, government.......

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


Shouldna done the crime in the first place.

And people shouldn;t eat, then there would be no hunger..

And people shouldn;t breath, cause then air pollution would not matter!

Damn guilty people for living!

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by GePap


You spoke of masses- in a sense, the masses AS CITIZENS, can ELECT people to make central priorities, and give them the resources to investigate things they as individuals could not possibly do, thus having better (if not perfect) information with which to make decisions as to how to allocate goods..sounds almost like, government.......

Or they could rely on an impartial private group like ohh say Consumer Reports that provides them that same info without having to bloat the government. Sounds like market and Democracy

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Because as citizens we have no right to choose productions. That is reserved for the property owners.

Why?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Why not?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


Or they could rely on an impartial private group like ohh say Consumer Reports that provides them that same info without having to bloat the government. Sounds like market and Democracy

Somehting like 'consumer reports" would have no influence or power, over, lets say, allocating resources towards a transportation gird, health care, specially preventive care for all, defense spending, R&R spending not done by tax companies, so forth and so on.

The situation is bigger than SUV's or pes..those are simply examples of a system in which you argue for letting people buy bigger TV or pants as some greater fundamental good, than say being able to make sure every kid is immunized and all people have access to basic preventive medicine.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Why not?

because property rights are created by the state, not by owners themselves, becuase there are no natural rights of property.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

And the state created by the people endowing the state with those same rights Blah blah blah.