Communist Education?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by JohnT
So... 12 different detergents are really 5 because there are only 5 detergent manufacturers represented in your local Kroger?

Do you think Tide, Cheer, Era, etc, are really all that different when the come from the same factory? They even have the same packaging.

It's like the inexpensive cheese story someone here on Poly told once. The deli guy slived of a large wedge and priced it up. When consumers asked what the difference was, he said, absolutely nothing, but they bought it up anyways. He kept dividing and upping the price, and soon sold off most of his cheese simply because consumers thought there was a difference.

[Ramo]

Ned is half correct. Cambodia is led by a communist party. In fact, Hun Sen (sp?) was the leader of Cambodia during the years of Vietnamese occupation. Cambodia, however, has a market economy, so it's not really a socialist/communist cuontry.

My understanding is that the party passes themselves off as social democrats nowadays.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by GePap


And what si the counterarguement?

how many people here decide they needed a flatscreen high definitions Tv and wrote to the TV makers askign them to make it? What about bobblehead dolls? Foam novelty hands? SUV's?

Certainly, a producer of goods can come up with an improved product, a new form of something old, and get consumers to buy it as an "imporve" version, but anythign trully novel does NOT come out due to demand-you simply can NOT demand what you have no diea exists- you can demand a better form of something old, but not something new. When something trully new comes out, it is up to the manufacturer to create demand- most beneingly simply by telling consumers his product exists, sometimes by manufacturing a reason why you need itand getting people to buy that as well.

The issue of demand and capitalism becomes this though, for some old prodcuts there is no improvement possible, so what does a company do to increase sales, or their share of business? They must manufacture some new "need" in order to get something out of the market.

What is your point?

Is it simply that marketing is wrong? That new market creation and appeal to consumers is inherently evil. That frivolous products should never be made?

I guess we should simply eliminate these frivoulous endevours and add to the jobless situation then no?

As for Che's arguement, it does bespeak a problem with capitalism the formation of large barriers to market entry and monopolies without true competition. If airbags were truly the end all be all feature clamored for by every marketing study, the first to adopt this technology should in theory be the winner. Failing that a serious bevy of competitor should force the issue. Seems to me one of 2 things are at odds here.

a)The auto manufacturers completely missed the boat wrt market wants or
b) The supposed desire/value of air bags did not translate into a profitable feature as the cost of such airbags was not inline with the expected sales/profit.
Another words its alright to want something but bear in mind there is no such thing as a free lunch (even in communism).

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Do you think Tide, Cheer, Era, etc, are really all that different when the come from the same factory? They even have the same packaging.

It's like the inexpensive cheese story someone here on Poly told once. The deli guy slived of a large wedge and priced it up. When consumers asked what the difference was, he said, absolutely nothing, but they bought it up anyways. He kept dividing and upping the price, and soon sold off most of his cheese simply because consumers thought there was a difference.

The fact that they are chemically different using different surfactants, builders, and enzymes I guess means nothing.

The fact that there is demonstratable difference in there effectivity I guess means nothing.

The fact that you perceive no difference means everything.

[Ned]

Originally posted by GePap

The issue of demand and capitalism becomes this though, for some old prodcuts there is no improvement possible, so what does a company do to increase sales, or their share of business? They must manufacture some new "need" in order to get something out of the market.

In the commie world, they would continue to make buggy whips to protect worker jobs.

The buggy whips would pile up on shelves, unneeded and unsold.

What is a good socialist to do?

Why of course!

Ban cars.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


What is your point?

Is it simply that marketing is wrong? That new market creation and appeal to consumers is inherently evil. That frivolous products should never be made?

I guess we should simply eliminate these frivoulous endevours and add to the jobless situation then no?

The point is that real benefit to society should be the measure of your system of production. You and Ned are arguing for the market, and Che and Gepap have given you a good argument against the market. So if your only response is to say that the market is needed to create jobs I suggest you try again.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Ned

Ban cars.

That's not a bad idea since the car system was effectively forced on us by corporations buying up all the streetcar tracks and destroying them, as well as getting the state to pay for all the roads.

The suburbs are a good example of an inefficient mode of living foisted on us by corporate intervention.

[JohnT]

[MrFun]

Look!

You got JohnT to laugh!!

[JohnT]

Something usually reserved for Sava...

[Kidlicious]

But Agathon is right.

[JohnT]

Yes, because we all know how many streetcars existed in the US (Yeah, I know Agathon isn't from around here... but you are) in 1910. Millions! Billions!

[Ned]

Kid, you make a good point about socialism. If you define the meausrement of success the way you do, why of course socialism is a success.

The buggy-whip worker has his job and is making a good living. All is well in paradise.

[JohnT]

And there are no cars foisted upon an unwilling populace by the merchants of evil!

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by JohnT
Yes, because we all know how many streetcars existed in the US (Yeah, I know Agathon isn't from around here... but you are) in 1910. Millions! Billions!

What does that matter? The point is that Americans drive their cars too much, and that is a result of the market and corporations.