What should the US do about the job drain?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ned
In order to have a populace that can handle high tech jobs, one needs a very well educated populace. Unfortunately, public education in the United States is severely broken.

This is crap. There are mountains of IT workers still begging for work, and I'm not just talking about web designers. The U.S. public education system was one of the best in the world, and continues to be so, despite Republican attempts to cripple it and make education a private business. This isn't to say there aren't problems, but the system ain't broken . . . yet.

Finally, we have a mentality here that seeks to impose more and more costs on businesses that should be funded by society.

Businesses aren't part of society?

[Ned]

Originally posted by Ramo


1. Foreign workers in places where American capital is moving to (the third world) make a pittance. It's totally obscene to have the US government tax their incomes.
2. How do you suppose such a tax is going to be enforced? It's not like Chinese or Indian tax collectors are going to follow the IRS' orders.

I think you missed my post about the deductiblity of foreign wages from American tax returns.

As to your observation about the obsenity of taxing foreign wages,

HUH?

They are taking jobs from America after all. That was the question on the table, was it not?

Personally, I would be in favor of lowering costs on doing business in the US by moving social costs onto government.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The U.S. public education system was one of the best in the world, and continues to be so, despite Republican attempts to cripple it and make education a private business. This isn't to say there aren't problems, but the system ain't broken . . . yet.

Really? For some reason, I never grew to believe the US public education system was once of the best in the world. Maybe that's because of the terrible inequalities in the quality ofeducation across the country. Ormaybe that's because of the relativelyweak knowledge a high-school student acquires. I heard tales of mediocre French students who passed for geniuses during their stay in the States. And France is far from the best education system in the world yet.

OTOH, the US has among the most high-end universities in the world (if not the very best of the world), but those require ridiculous fees to enter them.

As a result, the US has an educated population that can get very high levels of education, and uneducated population that cen remain very ignorant. That's probably the main reason why I keep hearing about being competitive against the low-wage countries.

[rah]

IT jobs are being outsourced overseas because of cost. It has nothing to do with the lack of well educated IT candidates available to do the job. There are plenty available. But a lot of that cost savings is being eaten up in improper translation of specs requiring multiple re-dos. Getting a offshore vendor the same high level project knowledge to make project decisions is also very costly. Eventually companies will identify the true cost of out sourcing, and reduce it's dependecy on it except in cookie cutter type applications. We are experiencing that now. The high level development is staying on shore now due to many failures off shore.

The programming happening in India is grunt level programming.

[Ramo]

I think you missed my post about the deductiblity of foreign wages from American tax returns

So what are you suggesting?

As to your observation about the obsenity of taxing foreign wages,

HUH?

They are taking jobs from America after all. That was the question on the table, was it not?

That was the question, and your "solution" is obscene.

Personally, I would be in favor of lowering costs on doing business in the US by moving social costs onto government.

Of course you would be. After all, the mantra of the right is to socialize costs and privatize profits.

[DanS]

Really? For some reason, I never grew to believe the US public education system was once of the best in the world.

I don't know as there have been any good comparative studies done at the time of che's "once of the best in the world". Speculation in absence of evidence.

[Spiffor]

BTW, for real results about comprative education systems, look forthe PISA Study. It was released some odd two years ago. It shocked Germany, which ranked badly.
I'm going to bed, so I can't be arsed to look for it, butI trust it's an easy find.

[Ned]

1. Foreign workers in places where American capital is moving to (the third world) make a pittance. It's totally obscene to have the US government tax their incomes.
2. How do you suppose such a tax is going to be enforced? It's not like Chinese or Indian tax collectors are going to follow the IRS' orders. [/QUOTE]

I think you missed my post about the deductiblity of foreign wages from American tax returns.

As to your observation about the obsenity of taxing foreign wages,

HUH?

They are taking jobs from America after all. That was the question on the table, was it not?

Personally, I would be in favor of lowering costs on doing business in the US by moving social costs onto government.

[Dr Strangelove]

Make some demands of the countries which have the biggest trade surplus with the US, specifically force them to accept labor unions. That will level the playing field very quickly.

[Nubclear]

Solution: Abolish minimum wage and work safety standards. Along with pesky environmentalist laws.

And re the US education system:

[Ned]

Originally posted by Ramo


So what are you suggesting?



That was the question, and your "solution" is obscene.



Of course you would be. After all, the mantra of the right is to socialize costs and privatize profits.

Ramo, I assume from your posts you are not in favor of keeping jobs in America.

[Lancer]

"1) Provide a tax credit for wages paid to Americans
2) End employer contributions to SS - shift to workers
3) Provide universal health care insurance to reduce health care costs on US businesses
4) End workers compensation laws - subsitute government insurance
5) Provide tax credits for compliance with environmental laws
6) Tax wages paid to workers outside the United States"

Ned, this is friggin brilliant. Just what I was looking for.



Dan, a commie. A COMMIE?!?!

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Ned
1) Provide a tax credit for wages paid to Americans

Agreed

2) End employer contributions to SS - shift to workers

Only if SS is privatized/allowed to invest in equities as well to allow smaller contributions that will grow at an appropriate rate. Appalling how baby boomers and gen X'ers will never see a fraction of their invested SS monies. At leastwith an overall growth approximating historical stock market growth SS contributions would not have to be as sizable as they are now thus reducing the burden on the workers and as a side benefit would align government and industries (i.e.job growth) moreclosely.

3) Provide universal health care insurance to reduce health care costs on US businesses

couldn't disagree more on this one tho'. The cost of national healthcare although lifted from the backs of employers who typical shoulder the burden of (my estimate) 70% of the costs typically would IMHO be completely (in typical government fashion) be bungled thus raising overall costs. Tax burden to support such a program would be a major disincentive to growth. I do agree healthcare cost must be reigned in.In that regard I support initiatives that limit liability against malpractice, look to cleanup the HMO/insurance industries etc. Reducing those healthcare costs would allow more hires but ultimately I think a governement healthcare does nothing but increase those same costs.

4) End workers compensation laws - substitute government insurance

ugg another potential government bungle

5) Provide tax credits for compliance with environmental laws

woot! woot! Throw incompliance with OSHA as well!

6) Tax wages paid to workers outside the United States

Agreed

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
They only shut down an American factory when it becomes UN-PROFITABLE. If the American factory is making a profit they might start up another one in China to make MORE profit ofcorse but their not going to shut down a profitable factory for ANY reason,

Okay, everyone got that.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Ned
1) Provide a tax credit for wages paid to Americans

And the money for this tax credit will come from where? Your government is already running a $450 billion deficit.

The tax credit also won't do anything unless it makes up the difference between wages in the US and wages overseas. If labour costs $100 in the US and $10 in China, and the tax credit provides $1 then a company would still have an incentive to move jobs to China.

Originally posted by Ned
2) End employer contributions to SS - shift to workers

Again, this would likely have no effect on stopping the transfer of jobs while at the same time decreasing consumer spending.

Originally posted by Ned
3) Provide universal health care insurance to reduce health care costs on US businesses

This would likely lead to more investment and increased consumer spending, but it would not directly stop jobs going overseas.

Originally posted by Ned
4) End workers compensation laws - subsitute government insurance

Why should taxpayers pay for the mistakes made by a company. If a company has unsafe working conditions then the company should pay for the injuries it creates, not the taxpayer.

Originally posted by Ned
5) Provide tax credits for compliance with environmental laws

Again, where do you get the money for these tax credits.

It makes much more sense to tax companies that do not comply.

Originally posted by Ned
6) Tax wages paid to workers outside the United States

As Ramo mentions, this is impossible.

In most cases, American companies do not operate overseas factories. Instead, American companies contract out the work to overseas companies. For example, Nike doesn't employ workers in China. Instead it buys shoes and clothing made in China.

So the only way the US could "tax" these overseas jobs would be to tax imports which would violate WTO rules and lead to tariff wars.