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  • USA: Foreign Airlines Must Use Marshals Too

    Bush administration issues emergency order demanding that foreign airlines place armed air marshals on flights that travel into, out of or over United States if American officials determine there is threat of terrorists' hijacking international flight; move is significant expansion of American efforts to prevent commercial and cargo flights from being used in terrorist attacks at time when administration has raised nation's terror alert status to 'high'; new system goes into effect immediately for estimated 800 to 1,000 passenger flights a day as well as for cargo flights; American announcement warns that any carrier that refuses to post armed and trained air marshals when requested by US will be denied entry into American air space; announcement receives mixed, sometimes frosty reception from allies and foreign airlines; photo (M)


    Americans Order Foreign Airlines to Use Marshals
    By ERIC LICHTBLAU

    Published: December 30, 2003



    Agence France-Presse
    Tom Ridge, the secretary of homeland security, on Monday.

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    TIMES NEWS TRACKER


    Topics
    Alerts
    Terrorism




    Airlines and Airplanes




    ASHINGTON, Dec. 29 — Increasingly concerned about the threat of terrorists' hijacking an international flight, the Bush administration issued an emergency order on Monday demanding that foreign airlines place armed air marshals on flights that travel into, out of or over the United States if American officials determine there is a threat.

    The move is a significant expansion of American efforts to prevent commercial and cargo flights from being used in terrorist attacks at a time when the administration has raised the nation's terror alert status to "high." In announcing the order, the homeland security secretary, Tom Ridge, repeated that the alert would remain at "high" at least through the holiday season.

    The new system goes into effect immediately for an estimated 800 to 1,000 passenger flights a day that could potentially be required to use air marshals as well as for cargo flights. Although the plan had been under consideration for some time, the administration decided to move ahead with it in large part because of safety concerns raised by the Dec. 24 cancellation of six Air France flights between Paris and Los Angeles, a senior administration official said.

    The French flights were canceled after American officials picked up intelligence indicating that terrorists might try to board and the names of at least a handful of passengers on the flight manifests appeared to match names on American terrorist watch lists, American officials said. The timing of the flights over the holiday and the connection to Los Angeles — often thought to be a potential terrorist target — were also cause for concern, officials said.

    French officials have voiced skepticism about the events last week. Still, Mr. Ridge also announced that American and French officials had met on Monday to discuss issues like intelligence sharing and ways to strengthen aviation security. Representatives of the two countries are to meet again in January.

    Mr. Ridge said: "Today's meeting is an indication of the importance our mutual governments place on security as well as the need to work together to protect the public from the threat of terrorism."

    Under the new American protocol, officials said that if they developed intelligence indicating that a particular flight might be a target of terrorists, as happened last week, they would demand that the foreign airline post armed and trained air marshals, employed by the host government. If the carrier refuses, officials said, the flight could be denied entry into American air space. Hundreds of international cargo transport flights will also be covered by the restrictions, officials said.

    "Any sovereign government retains the right to revoke the privilege of flying to and from a country or even over their airspace," Mr. Ridge said. "So ultimately a denial of access is the leverage that you have."

    American officials would not speculate on how many foreign flights will ultimately be required to post air marshals, saying it would depend on American assessments of risk levels and the intelligence received. Private analysts suggested that only a small part of foreign flights might actually be required to post armed marshals, but the American announcement, and the forcefulness with which it was delivered, received a mixed, sometimes frosty reception from allies and foreign airlines.

    In Britain, where handguns are banned and even many police officers do not carry weapons, the transportation agency said earlier this week that armed marshals might be required on some British carriers. But it emphasized in a statement on Monday that "only the U.K. can authorize the placing of air marshals on U.K. carriers."

    The British Air Line Pilots Association said arms did not belong on aircraft, and British Airways, the country's biggest airline, said it reserved the right not to fly if it was forced to add air marshals. "We have received the request for the deployment of cover capabilities on flights," an official with the airline said. "Only if British Airways was satisfied that safety was enhanced would that flight take off."
    There's a second page too.

    I don't like it. It's awfully cheap, and it seems like a slippery slope. Today it's just airlines. But who knows? Tomorrow it might be an full embargo on nations that refuse to, say, disclose all intelligence info. or something.

    (My FIRST response was "Wtf!? We can even do that!?" but I didn't realise it would be based on airspace denial, before reading the article.)

    It's going to result in less flights to and from the country, and that means travelers will be pissed off, and tourism on both sides of the Atlantic (and to and from those other continents too) will probably suffer for it. AFAIcan tell.

    EDIT: Fixed a URL and changed the icon (I had a different title at first which led me to the : cool : Message Icon.)
    meet the new boss, same as the old boss

  • #2
    I can't wait for an "air cop" to fire his weapon in the plane and hit a window, thus depressurizing the plane

    Again, a brilliant idea. Why don't the risky flights just get cancelled, when we know they are risky?
    "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
    "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
    "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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    • #3
      This isn't an inordinate step. And I don't see how its a slippery slope- they're just tightening up security a bit.

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      • #4
        i don't mind it so much. only thing is, i'm not so happy about the gun thing. those air marshalls better have good aim.
        B♭3

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        • #5
          This isn't an inordinate step. And I don't see how its a slippery slope- they're just tightening up security a bit.
          Maybe I just get worried too much. Then again, it's definitely NOT something we should lead ourselves to.
          meet the new boss, same as the old boss

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Q Cubed
            Only thing is, i'm not so happy about the gun thing.
            Unless the Marshalls are used very rarely (which seems unlikely, as the intelligence seems very trigger-happy with the switch of the yellow and orange alerts), accidents are bound to happen with gunmen aboard a plane.

            I have no problems with further cooperation in tightening the security. I also think that the US should give warrants that it will comply to whatever demand of a partner if the partner feels its own territory is threatened, thus making the agreements equal (for example, Berlusconi recently announced there was a plane-attack planned on the Vatican during Christmas' prayer; I know, it's Berlusconi we are talking about ).

            However, the marshall thing goes way too far. If you have doubts about a flight, cancel the flight already, and don't risk the live of hundreds of passengers!
            "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
            "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
            "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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            • #7
              However, the marshall thing goes way too far. If you have doubts about a flight, cancel the flight already, and don't risk the live of hundreds of passengers!


              Not to mention the people at the site of the crash...

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              • #8
                You know, the Dennis Bergkamp attitude is looking more sensible every day.
                Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost.

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                • #9
                  Good decision. I'll feel safer knowing some American cops are on some Air France flight that gets taken over by terrorists.
                  KH FOR OWNER!
                  ASHER FOR CEO!!
                  GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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                  • #10
                    I will blow up a million planes

                    every day

                    for five days

                    unless you give us no marshalls.
                    Blog | Civ2 Scenario League | leo.petr at gmail.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
                      Good decision. I'll feel safer knowing some American cops are on some Air France flight that gets taken over by terrorists.
                      I was under the impression the cops were of the plane's country of departure. IIUC, the British (who are always the first to happily obey to big bro US) have set up their own marshall force just one or two days ago.

                      Now, let me ask you this question. Will you feel safer if an Air France plane flies over the US with French Marshalls in it?
                      "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                      "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                      "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'd be a lot happier if they used some non-penetrating weapons.

                        I certainly hope that 'armed' can be interpreted to mean something other than guns.

                        Dart guns, electric stun guns, chemical sprays, high-frequency sound devices, there's lot's of stuff that can be used.

                        A 9mm bullet can easily pass through the human body with enough force to penetrate a passenger window.
                        "Wait a minute..this isn''t FAUX dive, it's just a DIVE!"
                        "...Mangy dog staggering about, looking vainly for a place to die."
                        "sauna stories? There are no 'sauna stories'.. I mean.. sauna is sauna. You do by the laws of sauna." -P.

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                        • #13
                          Got a bunch of people who can openly carry guns on planes? Now that's a new vulnerability right there.
                          (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                          (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                          (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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                          • #14
                            Will you feel safer if an Air France plane flies over the US with French Marshalls in it?


                            No.
                            KH FOR OWNER!
                            ASHER FOR CEO!!
                            GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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                            • #15
                              If the quality of the Marshalls are equal to the quality of all those people "screening" that old lady and her luggage, be afraid, be very afraid.

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