What do you think is the baddest ass piece of military hardware?

[Serb]

Originally posted by Patroklos
I gave you an entire book of numbers from a respected and acclaimed book. The numbers are against you no matter how much revisionist crap you spout.

You did fight against Nazism and that would be a great thing....except tthe only reason you did it was to save your own lot of mass murderers.

And your 40 million in Europe thing is ridiculous. If you are going to use war dead for one side then you have to use it for all. Didn't you learn anything in elementry science class, there is this thing intelligent people use called the Scientific Method.... I maintian through FACT (produce your own numbers with a source) that from 33-45 you killed more people. I bet the Nazi's would have caught up too you but they were stopped, you weren't. You actually liberated the concentration camps and still kept the gulags working after what you saw, though I guess such sights weren't new to your political leadership (just paint some red stars everywhere and you might as well be in Siberia).

And then, while it may not matter to you but it does to me, there are circumstances. While sensless mass murdering is always wrong I tend to despise the people who kill in times of peace like most of the history of the Soviet Union, Mao, and Cambodia more. It just seems more cold blooded to me. Nazi concentration camps fit in there too, because they were well removed from the war.

And btw as the book states through analysis of numbers (you have to do that) the Soviet Union did not kill 50% of its citizens. using the 60+ million they gave it is actually closer to 29% (all causes, including war deaths). Congratulations!

If you can't understand that German soldiers can and did fight for with bravery then your revisionist problems are serious indeed.

[Patroklos]

Sucks when the truth won't go away

[TCO]

Originally posted by Serb

But, those exersises and training simulated a rescue mission on YOUR downed subs. I asked about something different- how much time it takes to modify your equipment (and perhaps to test it on depth) to make it possible to use it to save sailors from OUR subs. Is it possible to modify and test it within few days?


I understand, but as I see, the problem wasn't only in time needed to deliver your equipment on scene, but more in time need to modify and test your equipment to make it possible to use it.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought USSR had more subs than USA. I'm talking about SU, not modern Russia.

I don't have such data, so I can't tell anything.

p.s. you bring some good points actually. I have to think about what you said.

1. I don't know about the DSRV mating capability. It has some flexability. Don't remember the details and don't remember what is classified.

2. To modify the DSRV, not sure. But with a "move heaven and earth attitude", you can move a lot faster than your used to. I mean how long does it take to cut a peice of metal and weld it? I don't know exact answer, but as a military man and an engineer, I would put people through the stress of trying. Look at Appolo 13. That was not "in the manual". Required some under stress innovation. that's why you have good people and why you should use them to their utmost.

3. There are other options than the DSRV. SOme types of diving bells and the like which had more flexible mating ability. Also even the possibility of using divers. What if the escape trunk was damaged and crew could have gotten out with Steinke hoods but couldn't open the hatch. When the ship went down, you didn't even know if this was possible or not, since you didn't know where it was.

4. Yes, the Soviets had more subs than us. We were commonly regarded as capable of operating them better than the Soviets. And DEFINITLY now are. You guys can barely get to sea.

[Serb]

Originally posted by TCO
Patty,

*GREEN FLARE*

p.s. Serb is a moron.

in p.s. I meant your second post and your thought about our bureaucratic system.
I hope you'll understand this:

[TCO]

Originally posted by Patroklos
I hear you, and see the flare and am heading back to base.

Just out of curriosity, has the US ever used that stuff in a real submarine accident?

I'm in the Navy but not a submariner, know only ther cursory stuff about them.

No. We have not. After all that time and money, no good accidents. Bonefish was abondoned at the surface and later towed into port. Guitarro was a very close call and almost ended up like Bone fish and a lot of other close calls like that. Of course Scorpion was lost...but that was one of those ghastly "wives on the pier and sub doesn't show up" things. Was lost weeks before. Subs are EXTREMELY autonomous.

It would have been cool to try on the Kursk. As a submariner, it really made me sick that they did not try as hard as possible to get those guys. That they suffocated in the dark.

The DSRV is most useful for a sub going down after overhaul or new construction. (Like the the THRESHER which is what prompted the program.)

[TCO]

How do you make those teensy letters. And my russian is pretty limited...

[Serb]

It means- FY buddy.

that's for moron

[Serb]

When posting reply, just click on arrow near "SIZE" and choose "small".

[TCO]

I am going to think that it means "take my wife, please." instead

[Serb]

No, it has variaty of meanings actually. It also can by translated as go **** yourself commrade.

This tread has reached its intellectual apogee

[:) Smiley]

wow, another 500-post thread

[Serb]

Is it 500 already?
Damn, too many good pictures left.

[Serb]

The ultimate weapon of all times:

[TCO]

Put up an M-14 picture.

[Serb]

AK-47 is better.