The rights of father

[Pekka]

Dr Strangelove, yeah, it goes both ways..

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Hey, I have 1.5 years until I can call myself Esq. I don't want to get in trouble with the Bar Association .

I don't think you'll ever have any trouble with them.

[Ned]

All I can say is that this woman is mad and the new boyfriend is not the entire problem.

The fault usually lies with how the man treats the woman. Lack of communication (listening to the woman) is the most common problem.

Pekka, your friend should figure out what he did wrong and see if he could patch things up with the woman rather than continuing to hurt her feelings the way he is. Counselling helps, especially when both parties' feeling are deeply hurt.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Pekka
Dr Strangelove, yeah, it goes both ways..

There are places down here where the old way of doing things lives on.

[Kuciwalker]

*cough*texas*cough*

[tandeetaylor]

I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but I can tell you that I was once that 4 year old (not specifically the same, but close). Tell your friend to never give up. Always fight for her. It will seem hopeless sometimes and he will tragically miss a lot of his daughter's life. But if she's got anything like a good head on her shoulders, no matter how indoctrinated she is, one day she will realize what has happened, and she will reject her mother and return to her father. She has physical and legal superiority over her daughter now, but one day she will be an adult, and she'll have no more power over her than her daughter chooses.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by skywalker
*cough*texas*cough*

** throws a bottle of NyQuil at skywalker **

[Dis]

I saw the thread title and I was sure this was a blackice thread.

[Buck Birdseed]

Originally posted by Azazel
Snapcase won't answer the question! Snapcase won't answer the question! nya nya nya.

Okay, you want an answer? I do believe the laws are missapplied in the mothers' "favour", thus enforcing the social position of women as the subservient, "caring", portion of society. Women and men need to be able to set their own identity (co-operatively, of course) and not have one imposed on them by the legal system.

Oe caveat I'd have to the above is that it is indeed true that most violence in today's patriarchal society is committed by men. However, I do think more "caring" fathers is an appropriate method to combat this and good examples of single fathers coping with children is a key factor in this.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Buck Birdseed

Okay, you want an answer? I do believe the laws are missapplied in the mothers' "favour", thus enforcing the social position of women as the subservient, "caring", portion of society. Women and men need to be able to set their own identity (co-operatively, of course) and not have one imposed on them by the legal system.

But is this the result of social pressures or is there something innate in the psychology of women that has caused or partially caused what we see as gender differences? Until we have an answer to this question it's premature to think we can fix it by changing the law.

One caveat I'd have to the above is that it is indeed true that most violence in today's patriarchal society is committed by men. However, I do think more "caring" fathers is an appropriate method to combat this and good examples of single fathers coping with children is a key factor in this.

Again, is this something that could conceivably be fixed by social or political reform, or do we need more radical solutions, like drug therapy or genetic engineering to rid ourselves of the violence?

[Buck Birdseed]

Lemme just say I don't think it's a coincidence that the "all differerences between genders are genetical" crowd pretty much coincides with those who continually benefit from opression in some way. Of course, they'd say identity self-definition is wishful thinking on my part that I use to pursue my political goal of just distribution of power, whereas the natural order-slash-God clearly dictates that their power-systems are the right ones.

(Yes, I believe all religious "virtues" are in fact those that the natural flock mentality imposes upon us, and that it's our ability to break free of the heard that makes us more than mere animals.)

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Buck Birdseed
Lemme just say I don't think it's a coincidence that the "all differerences between genders are genetical" crowd pretty much coincides with those who continually benefit from opression in some way.

That's true. I hope you don't count me as one of these.

Of course, they'd say identity self-definition is wishful thinking on my part that I use to pursue my political goal of just distribution of power, whereas the natural order-slash-God clearly dictates that their power-systems are the right ones.

I wouldn't go that far, but I'd be careful of attributing all the differences to social conditioning without evidence. It stands to reason that biology plays a large role in shaping our preferences. We like to think we enjoy absolute freedom, but what of homosexuals - are they "free" to change their sexual preferences? contra Sartre, I don't think so. So it looks like we may lose as much as we gain by not accepting innate differences.

(Yes, I believe all religious "virtues" are in fact those that the natural flock mentality imposes upon us, and that it's our ability to break free of the heard that makes us more than mere animals.)

That's true, but is everyone really ready for this? How many people prefer the safe environs of social approval to the loneliness of authenticity? A life in the herd is a safe life and while I think this is contemptible, it doesn't make me want to inflict misery on people by forcing them to be real individuals.

[Az]

How does the fact that there are genetic differences between men and women ( I hope you won't argue about that with me ) implies any sort of opression?

[Buck Birdseed]

It doesn't. But it's a convenient explanation offered by the right whenever the subject comes up, much like they claim low taxes/large social injustice is economically best for everyone. Or that opposition to abortion is ordained by God. Etc.

[Mazarin]

Originally posted by Agathon
Yeah, the law seems broken on this one. Especially since parental obligations and rights can no longer be tied to biological parenthood (surrogacy, IVF, etc.).

Some kick-ass lawyer needs to expose these laws.

Here's a chance for Imran Siddiqui esq., lawyer of Georgia, to show his quality.

Here are some definitions from German laws:
(I'm translating this one myself, so there can be errors due to not entirely correct translation)
from the BGB:

§1591 Motherhood. The mother of a child is the woman that has born it.

surrogate motherhood is illegal,

§1592 Fatherhood. Father of a child is the man,
1. who is married to the child's mother at the point of the child's birth
2. who has acknowlenged the Fatherhood or
3. whose Fatherhood has been ascertained by a court according to §1600d.

The fatherhood can be contested (if a married woman has been unfaithful, for example) and equals biological fatherhood in these cases; semen donators(voc.?) are not protected by German laws: if the woman can find out who it is, he will have to pay for the child.