Are You Ready For Some Football - Play Offs

[Sava]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
He played the 2nd best defense in the league, completed over 50% of his passes against them. Threw 2 TD and NO INTs. I'd say he played pretty damned good this week. Your hatred for Vick is clouding your judgment.

he completed 8 passes... and he sucked rushing... 3.2 per play

After all, with Vick they are 2-1, and both wins against a good opponent. Without Vick, the Falcons were 2-10.

if one player means THAT much to the Falcons, then they just suck

How is gaining 150 yards not doing ****? It moves the chains, gets you in good field position. Obviously if you run for 150 yards and don't score many points, the passing game is to blame. The running game did its job.

Rushing yards can be very deceiving. How many of those yards come on one or two plays? How many yards come late in the game when the result is decided? How many touchdowns does a RB get? First downs? High yard totals are good, but just like with Minnesota vs Bears last week, you can gain a ****load of yards and still not do ****.

So that win against Tennessee? That wasn't a big game? What is a big game then?

against an injured McNair... BTW, I watched New England beat the Colts in the 4th quarter after Peyton's offense couldnt' gain like 2 yards to win it.

I think Tampa Bay might disagree with that statement.

yeah... because they won a Super Bowl with Brad Johnson?

[Imran Siddiqui]

he completed 8 passes...

Out of 15 attempts. The playcall was to run. He was good when he needed. 2 TDs of those 8 passes.

if one player means THAT much to the Falcons, then they just suck

DID YOU WATCH THE FALCONS THIS YEAR WITHOUT VICK? I couldn't think of a more 'DUH' statement .

ushing yards can be very deceiving. How many of those yards come on one or two plays? How many yards come late in the game when the result is decided? How many touchdowns does a RB get? First downs? High yard totals are good, but just like with Minnesota vs Bears last week, you can gain a ****load of yards and still not do ****.

Portis is the type of player who usually gains his yards over many carries. He usually doesn't break many 60+ runs and when he does, the end result is more like 200 yards rushing . He also has a pretty decent number of TDs (14)

1591 yards, and missing a few games leads to a 5.5 ypc average, which is eye popping. And Denver is 10-5, mostly on the strength of the running game, so I don't think you can say he runs a lot of yards and doesn't do ****.

against an injured McNair

When is McNair NOT injured?

I watched New England beat the Colts in the 4th quarter after Peyton's offense couldnt' gain like 2 yards to win it.

How is that Peyton's fault, when the only time he had the ball in his hand is one throw and the rest were handoffs to James? Bad playcalling by Dungy, I'll admit, but he's made better playcalls before.

yeah... because they won a Super Bowl with Brad Johnson?

Huh... I think you misunderstood. Tampa got lit up by Peyton in a VERY clutch moment on Monday Night Football earlier this year.

And Johnson is a pretty good QB. This year he's got a rating of 84.5 (5th in the NFC, and better than Bulger & McNabb) whith 3700+ passing yards. And last year he had a 92.9 rating.

[Frozzy]

How is that Peyton's fault, when the only time he had the ball in his hand is one throw and the rest were handoffs to James? Bad playcalling by Dungy, I'll admit, but he's made better playcalls before.

Normally, Peyton calls his own plays in situations like that, but in this case Tom Moore was told to call the play and decided "Well, it worked against Buffalo, it should work again". Most of the big plays are actually from Manning himself.

[Frozzy]

Huh... I think you misunderstood. Tampa got lit up by Peyton in a VERY clutch moment on Monday Night Football earlier this year.

21 points in 2 minutes.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Out of 15 attempts. The playcall was to run. He was good when he needed. 2 TDs of those 8 passes.

because Phillips knows Vick sucks

DID YOU WATCH THE FALCONS THIS YEAR WITHOUT VICK? I couldn't think of a more 'DUH' statement .

yeah my point exactly

Portis is the type of player who usually gains his yards over many carries. He usually doesn't break many 60+ runs and when he does, the end result is more like 200 yards rushing . He also has a pretty decent number of TDs (14)

1591 yards, and missing a few games leads to a 5.5 ypc average, which is eye popping. And Denver is 10-5, mostly on the strength of the running game, so I don't think you can say he runs a lot of yards and doesn't do ****.

you are talking about an entire season, I'm talking about one game.

When is McNair NOT injured?

brittle and still better than Michael "MOST OVERRATED PLAYER EVER" Vick...

How is that Peyton's fault, when the only time he had the ball in his hand is one throw and the rest were handoffs to James? Bad playcalling by Dungy, I'll admit, but he's made better playcalls before.

Playcalling by Dungy? Do you have some illusions about who runs that offense? Dungy is a defensive guy... and if you watched that game, you would have seen Peyton barking out the plays.

Huh... I think you misunderstood. Tampa got lit up by Peyton in a VERY clutch moment on Monday Night Football earlier this year.

clutch? earlier in the year? do you know what clutch is?

And Johnson is a pretty good QB. This year he's got a rating of 84.5 (5th in the NFC, and better than Bulger & McNabb) whith 3700+ passing yards. And last year he had a 92.9 rating.

Johnson's not bad, but I doubt anyone puts him in the same class with Peyton. Peyton will be just like Marino... he will put up great stats, year after year, but never win the BIG GAME. I doubt Peyton will even get to it.

Of course, in this NFL, you never know. And if the Colts win it this year, I will puke.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yeah, but as you pointed out, not that time. I figured it wasn't Manning there, because he would have thrown more than once.

[Frozzy]

Of course, in this NFL, you never know. And if the Colts win it this year, I will puke.

Because, like everything else you just said, you were wrong?

[Sava]

Originally posted by Frozzy
Because, like everything else you just said, you were wrong?

do you live in the bizarro world? just curious... or did you not see the Bears beat the Broncos and Portis's 150 or so yard game? Did you not see the Vikes lose to the Bears after Onterrio Smith's huge rushing day? or are you living in some sort of dream world like Imran?

[Imran Siddiqui]

because Phillips knows Vick sucks

No, Phillips actually thinks Vick is the best player in the league... at least that is what he has said on many an occasion. He just knew that the way to win against Tampa is to run, run, and run some more. Against the Bucs you get in trouble by throwing (except if you are Peyton Manning).

you are talking about an entire season, I'm talking about one game.

Even in that one game, he moved the chains. One person usually does not win a game by himself.

brittle and still better than Michael "MOST OVERRATED PLAYER EVER" Vick...

And you've already admited that the Falcons are a one man team. With that one man they went to the playoffs. Without him, they were going for the #1 draft pick. Doesn't seem overrated at all based on those facts.

and if you watched that game, you would have seen Peyton barking out the plays.

Peyton barks out 'plays' for every play. It is to confuse the defense as to whether Manning is audibiling or not. On that case, the playcall was definetly from the coaches and Manning knows not to audible on the goalline (he probably isn't given free reign there).

clutch? earlier in the year? do you know what clutch is?

Yes, a 4th Q comeback IS clutch play! Why else would Elway be a 'clutch' QB when he didn't win the SB until the end of his career?

And if the Colts win it this year, I will puke.

Then I hope you puke . I think the Colts could beat KC if they face them in the 2nd round in the playoffs. NE in the snow would be incredibly hard.

[Frozzy]

Running isn't everything. All it does is move the chains, exhaust the defense, set up play-action passes.

Most of the time, you don't see a running back decide a game.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
No, Phillips actually thinks Vick is the best player in the league... at least that is what he has said on many an occasion. He just knew that the way to win against Tampa is to run, run, and run some more. Against the Bucs you get in trouble by throwing (except if you are Peyton Manning).

then Phillips is an idiot

Even in that one game, he moved the chains. One person usually does not win a game by himself.

moving the chains ain't **** if you can't score

And you've already admited that the Falcons are a one man team. With that one man they went to the playoffs. Without him, they were going for the #1 draft pick. Doesn't seem overrated at all based on those facts.

and you are basing this on his record in 3 games... eekkk I personally think the Falcons sucked so bad because Johnons was REALLY bad... and in this NFL, you can't compare years... last year, the Raiders and Tampa were making ass hats out of everyone... now look at them.

Peyton barks out 'plays' for every play. It is to confuse the defense as to whether Manning is audibiling or not. On that case, the playcall was definetly from the coaches and Manning knows not to audible on the goalline (he probably isn't given free reign there).

Probably... but regardless... 4 plays... and they couldn't gain 2 yards to win it. That's a clutch situation and the leader of that offense lead them to a loss.

Yes, a 4th Q comeback IS clutch play! Why else would Elway be a 'clutch' QB when he didn't win the SB until the end of his career?

regular season "comebacks" mean little... coming back just means you were LOSING

Then I hope you puke . I think the Colts could beat KC if they face them in the 2nd round in the playoffs. NE in the snow would be incredibly hard.

KC is going to get knocked out easily... they are reeling after two terrible losses.

And Frozz, don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not saying running isn't important. I think running is tied with defense as being the most important part of a winning team. What I'm saying is that even though Portis and Smith had great rushing totals against the Bears, they still didn't do **** to help their team win. And so far, Kansas City is DEAD LAST against the run in total yards allowed... and second to last in total yards allowed. How far do you think they will get?

About rushing...
Look at last year's top runners...
Ricky Williams -- missed the playoffs
LaDanian Tomlinsin -- missed the playoffs
Priest Holmes -- missed the playoffs
Clinton Portis -- missed the playoffs
Travis Henry -- missed the playoffs

Rushing yards are great, but they can be deceiving stats.

Some more deceiving stats you ask? How about points allowed per game...

2 of the top 3 defensive leaders in this category won't make the playoffs..

Tampa Bay -- 15.4
Buffalo -- 16.3
and maybe Miami 16.9

Takeaways can also be deceiving... in the NFC, two of the top 3 takeaways leaders won't make the playoffs...

San Francisco and Tampa Bay... both with +8

Now does this mean that getting takeways, allowing low points per game, and rushing over 150 yards won't win? Absolutely not... but one should look at the ENTIRE TEAM and the individual team matchups and their respective schedules before make bold predictions.

Personally, I like New England because they just seem a find a way to win every week. They've beaten Indianapolis, Tennesee, Denver, Philadelphia, and Dallas... all good teams... and they held Ricky Williams to sub 100 yard games in both victories over Miami, with yards per rush totals below his season average.

[Sava]

and BTW, 4 teams expected to go in the playoffs; St. Louis, Tennessee, Indianapolis, and New England, all rank in the bottom quarter in total rushing yards for the season.

The only somewhat consistent stat that coincides with a team's record seems to be points scored per game. Total yards on offense is kind of important, but Tampa Bay; the team with the best defense (points per game) is number 4 and they aren't going to the playoffs.

ahh parity... IT'S GARBAGE!

[Frozzy]

Establishing a good run game is vital againt teams with good offenses.

Look no further than the Broncos tonight. They kept Manning and co off the field. That's how they won (not to mention some dodgy calls )

[Dis]

I stayed out of this little discussion.

But how can you complain about a running back who gets 150 yards in a game!!!! That's the most idiotic thing I have ever heard.

Running the ball has more effects on a football game than just moving the ball down the field. It has to do with game management. There is a reason why good rushing teams win the superbowl almost all the time. And it's not because they get more yards rushing than passing- that is almost never the case. Passing will nearly always get more yards. Game management. And by extension- clock management. Rushing keeps the ball in your possesion, keeps your defense of the field (even top defenses cannot win games if they are on the field a majority of the time), and dictating terms of your drive. Rushing opens up your entire offensive playbook essentually. It gives many, many more options.

yes there have been times where a single running back has rushed for 150 yards and lost, but that is very infrequent.

[Frozzy]

And by extension- clock management. Rushing keeps the ball in your possesion, keeps your defense of the field (even top defenses cannot win games if they are on the field a majority of the time), and dictating terms of your drive.

Not to mention running the ball sets up those play-action passes, end-arounds and big heaves downfield that make sides Like the Colts and Patriots so dangerous when they begin to click, they are impossible to stop.