Yet more Arab Hypocracy.

[Whaleboy]

Ned: Cool!

I believe the two party system to be flawed. Even compared to the British parliament, I find it rather tame, and the British parliament, minus the lib dems, is disturbing close to each other (labour and conservatives).

I assure you it gets debated far less than it does here, and OT is testiment to that .

[Ned]

Whaleboy, if your point is that patriotism can be abused, I have no disagreement. But if your point is that patriotism is always abused in the manner of Nazi Germany, then I strongly disagree.

[Whaleboy]

As strongly as Nazi Germany? Then no. The same devices, used in the same way? Always has, is, and hopefully wont be in the future, but of that I have little hope .

[Ned]

Whaleboy, there is no question that I exceedingly admire the debate you have in Parliament. I often tune in and just listen in amazement.

[Whaleboy]

You should see my sociology classes! Our topic is "national identity". I'm in a class with horny bisexual, liberal girls, and townies who wear England football shirts and drink Carling. LET THE TABLES FLY!! jk

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Ned
Droque, just one more small point. We do not have "blind patriotism" here in the the US with such a vigorous two party system. Everything gets "debated," even strategy on the war on terror.

That is true. However Sept 11th gave a lot of leeway when it came to a way to deal with it, that many people wouldn't be taken seriously if they didn't want revenge. It would have been political suicide for a Dem to speak out against the WoT. Sure they can disagree with the details, but saying that the war on terror is bad would have lost credibility and votes. That shows that public opinion was so much for the war on terror, that I would consider it blind patriotism. Not in Bush, but in the belief that America has been wronged and needs revenge.

I saw Prime Ministers Question time the other day, during the Bush visit. Basically, anyone who didn't start their question praising the relationship with America was branded as taking cheap shots at the expense of the country, after Blair said "I am for strong ties, as anyone who has the best interests of the nation is" when questioned about whether he would bring up the steel tariffs and WTO ruling with Bush. This was remarked by a commentator (a member of the house of lords actually) as being unhealthy for debate. I don't doubt this could well be worse in the USA. If public opinion is one way, everyone must follow it, or lose votes, and thus the scope of debate is minimal. It's not that blind patriotism is the government pushes the people where it doesn't want to go, but that the emotional side of the people is harnessed and pushes the government in an emotional direction, which hinders rational debating on the issue. Hence the people's desire for revenge, not an impartial observers wish for justice.

[Ned]

Whaleboy, in the final analysis, it looks like you and I agree. Patriotism can be abused. But so long as there is a opportunity for vigorous debate, the opportunity for abuse is limited.

[Whaleboy]

Indeed, unfortunately though in any parliament I can think of, an "anti-patriot" such as myself would be somewhat oxymoronic. I commend you on your recognition of the power of the debate though. It is not a sport, but a comparison of views. And its all good!

[Ned]

Drogue, maybe the debate that day was limited as a matter of good manners and respect for the Queen if not for Bush.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Ned
Whaleboy, there is no question that I exceedingly admire the debate you have in Parliament. I often tune in and just listen in amazement.

Last time I saw it, the Chief Whip got scorned for abuse by the leader of the house I love the fact that you put a few hundred men (and a few women) in a room, and ask them to run a country, and even they resort to acting like little children. Conforting to know I love the debate, but surely the heckling isn't a good idea? Add the baiting done by the opposition, and the planted questions from Labour's side It could be a lot better.

[Ned]

Whaleboy, why do you think I like Apolyton so much?

[Whaleboy]

All proof that the UK should be run from Northampton College

[Whaleboy]

Ned: The cool smilies?

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
All proof that the UK should be run from Northampton College

No, the UK should be run from my bedroom. Without me knowing it

[Whaleboy]

I could make comments about what has gone on in your bedroom, but I probably shouldn't .