Yet more Arab Hypocracy.

[Whaleboy]

Ned: I was talking about patriotism and blind alliegiance to the flag, not the mention the degree of sociological brainwashing that occurs. Things most certainly have not changed. Another example is the attitude to ones "enemy". Of course, that very notion is holier than the pope. In your previous post, one could easily take Al Qaeda, go back 65 years and replace it with "Jew".

[Az]

Churchill, knew that he had just won the war with NAZI Germany when America was attacked and its patriotic juices began to flow freely.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Ned


Whaleboy, your lack of passion in your beliefs is annoying. When 9/11 occurred, Americans were shocked beyond belief. We were drawn together as one people, united in our grief and our resolve for taking the fight to the enemy, al Qaida. When the NFL games were held next, they all began with singing God Bless America. Flags waved everywhere and most burst into tears - even the men.

Unless you were here, you will never fully understand how we feel about this war on terror. To us, it is more than some simple exercise in reason. We want to kick some butt. We want to exhalt in Victory!

Which is exactly why, in a court case, the victim does not try, convict and sentance the defendant. I want justice. I want the people that purpetrated that atrocity found and tried, as any mass murderer would be. I don't want to make nations suffer in order that American's feel they have revenge. "Law is reason free from passion" still applies no matter what crime they have committed. The victim shouldn't be the judge too, it's far to one sided and biased. The USA is the victim, it shouldn't be the judge too.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
Ned: I was talking about patriotism and blind alliegiance to the flag, not the mention the degree of sociological brainwashing that occurs. Things most certainly have not changed. Another example is the attitude to ones "enemy". Of course, that very notion is holier than the pope. In your previous post, one could easily take Al Qaeda, go back 65 years and replace it with "Jew".

[Ned]

How dare you compare the actions of those brave isreali patriots of 65 years ago to the terrorist murdering baby-killers of today. You are a rascist bigot anti-semite and you hate everything about Israel.

[/Ned]

[Whaleboy]

Drogue:

[Whaleboy]

@Zen

All the logic of a frenetic bluebottle on acid! (not you of course)

[Ned]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
Ned: I was talking about patriotism and blind alliegiance to the flag, not the mention the degree of sociological brainwashing that occurs. Things most certainly have not changed. Another example is the attitude to ones "enemy". Of course, that very notion is holier than the pope. In your previous post, one could easily take Al Qaeda, go back 65 years and replace it with "Jew".

I don't think the comparison to NAZI Germany hold well. After all, the NAZI's tore down the German flag and raised the NAZI Flag in its place. What kind of patriotism is that?

[Whaleboy]

An ideology, a state, an applied ideology and a nation that believes in it. A state. A minor superficial aspect Ned. The analogy holds.

[Ned]

Drogue, in the abstract I agree with your point. But even the UN recognizes the right of self defense of nations. It does not require them to first get UN approval which the logic of your post would seemingly require.

[Ned]

Master Zen, I would only hope you would tone down your remarks on Israel and not make it appear that you lust for its destruction.

[Whaleboy]

If you're trying to pull off the WOT as an act of self defence, then you're in for a bumpy ride mon ami!

[Ned]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
An ideology, a state, an applied ideology and a nation that believes in it. A state. A minor superficial aspect Ned. The analogy holds.

I think Hilter replace patriotism with racism and Fuhrer worship.

[Drogue]

Blind patriotism isn't the main bad thing though. It isn't desirable, but what is more damaging is the direction it goes in. Nazi Germany was bad because of the direction Hitler took the patriotism he was entrusted with. While Bush isn't going in the right way, IMHO, he isn't Hitler (or at the very least, he was provoked before). Imagine if blind patriotism was used in a direction that looked after people, was tolerant, worked with international bodies, etc., I'm sure some of the people against it wouldn't be. Sure, it's still an undesirable, because it makes leaders less accountable, but it's not the main problem. The USA wanting to rule the world (or at least, dictate policy and government) is, IMHO, the main problem. I didn't oppose the war on Iraq because I didn't buy the threat, or because I liked Saddam (sic ) but because I don't think the USA should be able to dictate who can and who cannot rule a foreign nation, and I believed strongly that we shouldn't be paying for major military operations when the NHS and schools badly need more funding. However with the power they have, they can get away with illegal economic tariffs, defy the WTO, the UN and anybody else they wish. Sadly that's the world we live in

[Ned]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
If you're trying to pull off the WOT as an act of self defence, then you're in for a bumpy ride mon ami!

Do your really believe that we need UN approval to pursue OBL?

[Whaleboy]

"This glorious flag is under attack, we must unite under it to defend its honour, I am the conduit that will enable that" - Whaleboy paraphrasing Hitler.

It was nothing but a more extreme version of Bush admiration. Hitler could have died and been replaced by someone like Goering, and the difference in public furvour would have been minimal. It was of course Hitler and Goebbles that manipulated the simplistic idiocy of the masses to bring to fruition mass patriotism, dangerous enough in small amounts as you show so eloquently. Nonetheless, racism is a relative of nationalism, white supremacy/USA supremacy. I dont see a difference.