Yeah!!!! Stick it to those mother$%^& and break it off!!!!

[MichaeltheGreat]

Yeah, I've been on the line and been shot at, so I have empathy for the US soldiers who are now on the line and being shot at.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Spiffor
I was outraged by the pics of Iraqis dancing on Spanish corpses, pics I've seen today in the papers.

Unarmed Spanish.

What MtG is doing is exactly as despicable as what Piktis was doing during the actual war: he gloats over casualties

If they stop ambushing us, they'll stop becoming casualties.

Ever had an RPG flipped at you at close range? If you had, then the next time someone tried to flip one at you and got his head taken off before he got the chance to take yours off, you'd likely demonstrate a bit of enthusiasm.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Unarmed Spanish.

They are the enemy of the Iraqi guerilla nonetheless (secret services being scouting). To me, it is an ordinary act of war to kill enemies. What is not normal is to be overjoyed about it.

If they stop ambushing us, they'll stop becoming casualties.

If the US soldiers hadn't attacked, they wouldn't be casualties

Ever had an RPG flipped at you at close range? If you had, then the next time someone tried to flip one at you and got his head taken off before he got the chance to take yours off, you'd likely demonstrate a bit of enthusiasm.

Fortunately, I never was in such situation, and I sure hope I'll never be.
But I guess that now that it's all right to gloat about casualties, nobody will have problems here by showing enthusiasm next time a US helo is shot

My point is that you have no moral high ground whatsoever in comparison with the Iraqi guerilla, and I expected better from fellow westerners in general, and from a guy like you in particular.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by JohnT

I was about to post that the Americans were superior to the Iraqis, in that they don't dance on the corpses of their enemies.

Anybody else have a hard time believing that Spiffor logged on tonight to come here and post the thread "Why I think Americans are better than the Iraqis: They don't dance on the corpses of their enemies."?

Considering his history and the way he is posting now in this thread, I have a very hard time believing that as well.

[Thorgal]

Yeah, I've been on the line and been shot at, so I have empathy for the US soldiers who are now on the line and being shot at.

And that are shotting to people in his own country.
That is not empathy, but identification or comradeship.

Change Samarra for your city, Irak by USA, US, British, Poland, Spanish soldiers by Soviet, North Koreans, Chinesse, iraki soldiers. That is empathy.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Thorgal
And that are shotting to people in his own country.
That is not empathy, but identification or comradeship.

Actually considering the group that organized the ambush, it's more like being pissed at the fact he isn't part of the governing power structure anymore.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Spiffor

They are the enemy of the Iraqi guerilla nonetheless (secret services being scouting). To me, it is an ordinary act of war to kill enemies. What is not normal is to be overjoyed about it.

I wasn't aware that anyone in the international community recognized that "the Iraqi guerilla" had some standing to pick and choose enemies and kill whoever he picked and chose. I guess now you'll want to work on a rationale for how South Korean utility contractors and Japanese diplomats are also "enemies of the Iraqi guerilla"

BTW, these guys were probably a bit more than "scouting" - most intel weenies there are analytical and forensic and similar types, not operators.

If they stop ambushing us, they'll stop becoming casualties.

If the US soldiers hadn't attacked, they wouldn't be casualties

So if the US troops had just stood there and took it, they would have been magically protected? Oh, I get it, it's all the US fault. Never mind Hussein's violation of UNSCRs, past invasions of neighboring states, or the fact that he murdered his way to power in the first place - as far as the "international community" was concerned, he was the "legitimate ruler" of the Iraqi people, because he was the one who signed the checks, for among other things, the O'Chirac reactor. Hussein's blameless, because he's the guy you could do business with, regardless of anything else. It's the evil US.

Fortunately, I never was in such situation, and I sure hope I'll never be.

You should try it once - the overpressure from the blast has a nice effect on your ears and lungs when there's a not too far miss. Clears out your sinuses and bronchi real well, at least once you cough out all the blood, and after a while, you can see clearly again. It gives you a different view of the *******s flipping them at you, though.

But I guess that now that it's all right to gloat about casualties, nobody will have problems here by showing enthusiasm next time a US helo is shot

If anyone wants to jump up and down and gloat, they can go join the Fedayeen and put their commitment into action.

My point is that you have no moral high ground whatsoever in comparison with the Iraqi guerilla, and I expected better from fellow westerners in general, and from a guy like you in particular.

That's like the "self-defense is murder" relativistic BS. If there really was large scale popular support for the "Iraqi guerilla," the coalition position would be absolutely untenable, and casualties would be 10-20 times or more what they are. If they want to stop attacking and lay down their arms and just blend with the populace and go about their daily lives, that'd be fine with me, and 99.99% of the US and allied forces there. Then they can take up their political issues with the coming Iraqi transitional government, and finally with the Iraqi's own elected government. But that's not their intent, so when they attack, and get their asses killed doing it, I'll cheer until they stop, and then I'll cheer because they stopped.

And when the US gets out and the Iraqis are fully self-governing, I'll cheer some more.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Considering his history and the way he is posting now in this thread, I have a very hard time believing that as well.

Well, I wasn't in the OT in the wake of Sept 11. But my worst fear at Sept. 12 was to see the Americans dancing in the streets as soon as whatever scapegoat was bombed.
I was very pleasantly surprised to see such was not the case, and that most Americans called for reasoned answer rather than mindless revenge.

Since then, I held Americans in high regard when it comes to respecting the enemy. I strongly disagree with the wars done by the US, and by the massive killings that ensued, but I always acknowledged that there were no displays of public joy over the corpses.

I held Faded Glory and Ned for being exceptions. I considered whoever posted the "FEELGOOD video of the year" (a video picturing Afghani supposed terrorists being attacked and killed from the sky by the UN gunship) to be an ******* who didn't represent anything.

Today, while reading a paper, I've seen a pic that I haven't seen since two Israeli soldiers have been lynched 3 years ago. I have seen people -Arabs precisely- gloating and celebrating the death of their enemies. My gut reaction when seeing this pic was to think these guys were definitely inferior to the westerners there.

I don't thank you all for disproving it

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Spiffor
but I always acknowledged that there were no displays of public joy over the corpses.

I think that you are deliberately misreading most of the people in this thread. I don't really know why though because I really haven't seen anyone take joy in the deaths of innocent Iraqis.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
I wasn't aware that anyone in the international community recognized that "the Iraqi guerilla" had some standing to pick and choose enemies and kill whoever he picked and chose. I guess now you'll want to work on a rationale for how South Korean utility contractors and Japanese diplomats are also "enemies of the Iraqi guerilla"

They are fighting people, they are more or less organized, and they have clear political aims, i.e. to drive the foreigners out. I do not agree with them, and I think they'll only manage to worsen the suffering for everybody there, but I don't see anything flabbergasting when fighting people attacks those it considers enemies. I'm not whining on the death toll here; I'm whining about people gloating on the death toll.

So if the US troops had just stood there and took it, they would have been magically protected? Oh, I get it, it's all the US fault.[...] It's the evil US.

I assume it is the logic of your enemies. You say "if you weren't there in the first place, you wouldn't be killed"; they probably say "if you weren't there in the first place, you wouldn't be killed".
Care to tell me where's the difference, except the "We're right and they're wrong" part?

You should try it once - the overpressure from the blast has a nice effect on your ears and lungs when there's a not too far miss. Clears out your sinuses and bronchi real well, at least once you cough out all the blood, and after a while, you can see clearly again. It gives you a different view of the *******s flipping them at you, though.

No thank you. I'm quite shy about admitting it, but I dislike war

If anyone wants to jump up and down and gloat, they can go join the Fedayeen and put their commitment into action.

Then why don't you reenlist yourself ?

That's like the "self-defense is murder" relativistic BS. If there really was large scale popular support for the "Iraqi guerilla," the coalition position would be absolutely untenable, and casualties would be 10-20 times or more what they are. If they want to stop attacking and lay down their arms and just blend with the populace and go about their daily lives, that'd be fine with me, and 99.99% of the US and allied forces there. Then they can take up their political issues with the coming Iraqi transitional government, and finally with the Iraqi's own elected government. But that's not their intent, so when they attack, and get their asses killed doing it, I'll cheer until they stop, and then I'll cheer because they stopped.

You didn't get my point. I think the American troops was right to use self-defense. Unlike many lefties, I don't think the answer was disproportionate, because it is normal to do anything to survive. I consider the Fedayeen alone are responsible for the civilian casualties and wounded, because the fedayeen chose to ambush in a inhabitated area.
My problem with you is not the result of the gunfight. My problem with you is that you gloat about it. You're in front of you're computer, but you're ultimately no different from people who dance on corpses. And that's my disappointment.

And when the US gets out and the Iraqis are fully self-governing, I'll cheer some more.

Same here.

[Ned]

Oerdin, if the Stryker cannot be used in a hostile environment due to its thin armor, then the people responsible for this new and improved armored vehicle should be fired.

Who were they?

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I think that you are deliberately misreading most of the people in this thread. I don't really know why though because I really haven't seen anyone take joy in the deaths of innocent Iraqis.

I have seen plenty of joy over the death of enemy Iraqis though. And this is no different from the dancing guys in the newspaper, or from the overjoyed crowed that lynched Israeli soldiers 3 years ago.

I thought killing enemies was an unpleasant but necessary part of the work for a soldier. I see now I was misled.

[Ned]

No American rejoices over death. What we do is rejoice over victory. That is what MtG is doing here. Rejoicing over an American victory over the bad guys.

The teenager stepping on the Spanish soldier apparently doing both - rejoicing over a Saddamite victory and over the death of the Spaniard.

[DinoDoc]

nm, I realized that Ned said it better than I could have.

[Spiffor]

Re: Yeah!!!! Stick it to those mother$%^& and break it off!!!!

Ned: Are you sure?

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
**** with the best, die like the rest, *******s.
It's about time we started taking the war back to these SOB's.

Originally posted by Ted Striker

Kill 'em all

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Kill them, grill them, eat their charred remains.

Well, you're not completely wrong though:

Originally posted by Guynemer
Perhaps it is a defect in my character, but I have a hard time celebrating when human beings are killed.

I was also glad to see that Oerdin, despite going there, didn't display any hatred.