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Yeah!!!! Stick it to those mother$%^& and break it off!!!!
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Oh, Godwin has returned! Still waiting for an answer to my question BTW. I won't bother holding my breath though.
Well, Mr twoliner troll: Ad Godwin - the point referred to propaganda, not ideology, just like calling him the Iraqi Information Minister or Wolfiboy. Ad question, you had one? What was it again?
“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
"Hey, I have a brilliant plan! Of course, let us attack the American tanks with machine guns and RPG's!!!"
duh
It's your own ethnocentric bias that allows you to assume that Iraqi's who are willing to give up their lives for what they believe, are stupid and that you, sitting at your computer with nothing on the line, know better.
It's true that an RPG is a pretty dodgy weapon against an Abrahms tank, but sometimes they are successful.
The fedayeen will eventually all be killed.
Then the Coalition can concentrate on the harder task of tracking down the foreign bombers. Of course, with the fedayeen gone, they will have a harder time hiding out once the locals get sick of them and realize the fedayeen are gone. It's already happening though, the locals are offering more accurate intel than they were.
Do you really think there is a fixed and limited number of Iraqi resistance fighters? Go back and read the history of resistance movements. Many more resistance fighters will be killed than Coalition soldiers. The Coalition will still lose.
Tecumseh's Village, Home of Fine Civilization Scenarios
Originally posted by HershOstropoler
Ad question, you had one? What was it again?
Oh I really stopped caring after the hand waving theatrics you did earlier. But if you feel like answering with more than an "IT's not worth it to go into detail"-type reply, here it is.
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio
It's your own ethnocentric bias that allows you to assume that Iraqi's who are willing to give up their lives for what they believe, are stupid and that you, sitting at your computer with nothing on the line, know better.
Ethnocentric bias!!!
It's true that an RPG is a pretty dodgy weapon against an Abrahms tank, but sometimes they are successful.
An RPG against an Abrams is NEVER successful. PERIOD.
Do you really think there is a fixed and limited number of Iraqi resistance fighters? Go back and read the history of resistance movements. Many more resistance fighters will be killed than Coalition soldiers. The Coalition will still lose.
This isn't the freakin Vietcong we are talking about. This is a rag tag has been group of losers who have had every single one of their leaders rounded up except Sadaam himself. They have no big source of income, no external support worth damn. Their time and resources are limited and they are facing the strength, resolve, and resources of the greatest fighting force on the planet.
THE FEDAYEEN WILL ALL DIE.
And lose for a lost cause.
At least the Al Quedas can kid themselves in to believe that there are 70 virgins waiting for them. But these fools have nothing to look forward to than 6 feet of dirt over their heads.
We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln
Originally posted by techumseh
It's your own ethnocentric bias that allows you to assume that Iraqi's who are willing to give up their lives for what they believe, are stupid and that you, sitting at your computer with nothing on the line, know better.
One question, do you think it the slightest bit stupid to go facing down a heavily armed convoy poorly armed and with little chance of sucess when there are clearly better ways to hurt the Coalition that don't leave behind intel assets for them?
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio
Okay, hold it. I won't even argue about the rights and wrongs about invading Iraq, except to add that there are many more deserving and horrific regimes, like North Korea, and that the USA conveniently did not invade while Saddam committed genocide against the Kurds. (Okay, okay, I just couldn't help myself). I'm still happy to see the man gone, and I hope dead. Saddam was a truly evil person. I just wish that it had been done competently.
The reason we have US and other troops dying in the current numbers in Iraq is sheer incompetency in the Rumsfeld DOD and the unilateralism of the Bush administration. You have another debacle where Rumsfeld's captive intelligence planning group overrode the planning of the career military people, saying that the Iraqi people would welcome us with open arms. When these career military types tried to get anyone in the administration to listen (they predicted almost everything that has happened since the Saddam regime fell) they were ignored.
Results? Insuffiicient (hugely insufficient) MP's on the ground when things fell apart in Iraq. Due to contracting out, minimal military infrastructure-rebuild type people. Funny thing, the employees of the contractors don't like getting shot at, so rebuilding takes place slowly as the military no longer has the people, and the contractor hates getting shot at - law of unintended consequences.
No infrastructure and lack of coalition (USA does not have widespread support from other countries with better occupation and rebuilding experience) means the Iraqi people are getting more and more fed up with not having reliable power and water. This makes them more susceptable to recruiting efforts by groups opposing the US intervention.
The lack of MP's and security has meant the death of numerous moderates, further polarizing the political situation. A foobar the USA will be lucky to get out of without substantially more casualties. Look at the mishandling of Afghanistan, and then realize with horror that the Bush adminstration has learned NOTHING from that, and then you realize they are fools. The worse problem is that the USA has a tiger by the tail, and even if the Bush adminstration is voted out of office, whoever replaces them will be stuck.
Also note the political fall-out from the invasion of Iraq, the further polarization of USA-Moslem nation relations, the strengthening of radical Moslem groups around the Moslem world as backlash to the USA intervention, and lets just say I'm not paticularly impressed by the entire operation. Hopefully history will prove me wrong, but if you look at the history of similarly botched operations, it doesn't look too promising.
The worst form of insubordination is being right - Keith D., marine veteran. A dictator will starve to the last civilian - self-quoted
And on the eigth day, God realized it was Monday, and created caffeine. And behold, it was very good. - self-quoted Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it.
Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I'm very sorry… I wish it were otherwise.
I'd much rather have live prisoners, because they're a lot more informative than dead enemies, but that's not a feasible outcome.
Death is incidental to victory. I'm more interested in the fact that we decisively and overwhelmingly repelled their attacks and what effect that may have on their morale and will to fight. The key is breaking their will to fight, and every victory like this heads us in that direction. If they don't quit, they don't give us, or the rest of the Iraqis, many alternatives.
When loser Bush is vote out that when we will leave Iraq. Turkey would never have help us. First 98 % of the people in
Turkey where oppose to allow US troop to use Turkey as than base. I hear we try to encought than Coup against the Government of Turkey an lost. Coup very rarely occour when than large segmiment of the nation population support than popular government.
We are faceing than other Vietman in Iraq and afghanistan
which we will lose as we did in Vietman. Saddam is confiss than true Muslum by other Muslum.
Iran have nuclear weapon allready and that the reall reason Bush doesnot want to bring it before UN security council to have it member call Bush than loser. Pakistian , Bangladesh and India arenot going to sent any troop at all
and Bush ask repeated and the answer is no way from these Nations.
By the year 2100 AD over half of the world population will be follower of Islam.
Originally posted by techumseh
Praise Allah and pass the RPG's! You Yankee boys got a lot of these "victories" ahead. You're still gonna lose.
I'm willing to bet that two years from now 90% of the fighting is done by a deba'athified Iraqi military, that there is a functioning democratically elected government in Iraq, and that the economy is doing much better then it has under Saddams mismanagement.
Heck wages have already risen between 500% up to 1800% depending upon vocation and since sanctins have been removed and Saddam's sky high tarrifs are gone goods are poring into the country. Prices on just about everything have fallen to all time lows so now Iraqis have more buying power then any other time in their history.
Not bad for 7 months work. If you consider that losing then you must have a strange definition.
What would you call it? You get two traffic tickets (both your own fault) in one day and you whine like crazy. "Worst day ever!" Yah right, try losing members of your family to trigger happy Yanks at a checkpoint! Get my point?
This isn't the freakin Vietcong we are talking about.
Wanna bet?
At least the Al Quedas can kid themselves in to believe that there are 70 virgins waiting for them. But these fools have nothing to look forward to than 6 feet of dirt over their heads.
Yah, no ethnocentric bias here.
Tecumseh's Village, Home of Fine Civilization Scenarios
"In the ideal situation... we would have long ago secured and destroyed all major munitions depots and supply points"
The Bushies ****ed that up like everything else, but I doubt it would have provided a real solution.
It would have made a major difference to the combat capabilities of the insurgent and foreign fighters. They could still still plink the occasional target with smallarms, but everyone has those, including Iraqi security forces, police, bodyguars, etc. We couldn't get all the big stuff, but we could have gotten most of it, and made things like helicopter shootdowns and vehicles blown off roads much less frequent. It also would have tended toward equalizing enemy firepower compared to friendly Iraqi firepower.
"We will be stuck there damned near forever (or at least until the oil runs out ) unless we increase the pace of training of a new Iraqi army, and unless we do a very good job of supporting the development of stable political institutions by the Iraqis themselves."
That is about the only exit, one that is frought with risks too, and one that you know and I know that the Bushies in their stunning ability to believe in ponies under horse**** will **** up, too.
Given the necessary timeframe, I'm hoping the mess will be cleaned up by a Clark administration.
When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."
What would you call it? You get two traffic tickets (both your own fault) in one day and you whine like crazy. "Worst day ever!"
Hey, stop being ethnocentrically biased!!!
We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln
Originally posted by paiktis22
"The greatest force of the planet" (lol) is getting their asses kicked hard by a banch of rag tags though.
Paiktis there are currently 135,000 Americans and around 40,000 nonAmerican Coalition forces in Iraq. The KIA figures are less then 1,000 total from the start of the war until now. That's an eight month period so how on Earth could anyone consider that to be "getting their asses kicked"?
In military terms the average causality (killed or wounded) has only been 1-2 per day and that's if you include stupid stuff like auto accidents. I'm not seeing the great defeat you keep talking about.
I'm willing to bet that two years from now 90% of the fighting is done by a deba'athified Iraqi military, that there is a functioning democratically elected government in Iraq, and that the economy is doing much better then it has under Saddams mismanagement.
Heck wages have already risen between 500% up to 1800% depending upon vocation and since sanctins have been removed and Saddam's sky high tarrifs are gone goods are poring into the country. Prices on just about everything have fallen to all time lows so now Iraqis have more buying power then any other time in their history.
Not bad for 7 months work. If you consider that losing then you must have a strange definition.
Where do you get this stuff? Unemployment in Iraq has skyrocketed since the invasion. The US administration laid off the entire Iraqi army and much of the bureaucracy. They are selling off the public assets of the Iraqi people to their US corporate friends.
As far as your prediction that two years from now 90% of the fighting is done by a deba'athified Iraqi military(don't bet anything TOO valuable) that sounds just like the predictions of the proponents of "Vietnamization". Let's call it "Iraqiization". Sounds like a real winner to me!
Tecumseh's Village, Home of Fine Civilization Scenarios
Still waiting for an answer to my question BTW. I won't bother holding my breath though.
You Yankee boys got a lot of these "victories" ahead. You're still gonna lose.
) unless we increase the pace of training of a new Iraqi army, and unless we do a very good job of supporting the development of stable political institutions by the Iraqis themselves."
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