Georgia

[Saras]

Originally posted by Azazel

East Germany indeed has improved ( but it now faces other problems) OTOH, the vast majority of the people of the SU have suffered immensly from the fall of the SU. You can talk about phones ( which haven't improved in most places, since that requires money that isn't there ), and we can talk about no central heating, no jobs, no food... and the ensuing crime, lack of personal safety, etc. etc.

But are these problems caused by the fall of SU per se, or by other issues, such as some nations getting their **** together (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Czech, Poland, Hungary, Slovenia etc.) and others NOT doing that? Just how different were the SU systems in Baltics and rest of SU. Answer - not much.

[Az]

Not much. But similar culture with europe, and proximity to it sure made it easier. The other new nations didn't have that advantage, and instead of a poorly managed system ( That DID have the potential to be good, but that's a different discussion), went to no system, and if any new system will be constructed, it will be imposed on those nations.

Facts are facts. People in the FSU suffer now, and suffer a lot. You know it and so do I. I am glad that the Baltics, Poles, and Chechs live better lives, but Russians don't, Ukrainians don't, and the Caucasians CERTAINLY do not.

[Saras]

--"Facts are facts. People in the FSU suffer now, and suffer a lot. You know it and so do I. I am glad that the Baltics, Poles, and Chechs live better lives, but Russians don't, Ukrainians don't, and the Caucasians CERTAINLY do not."

To put it bluntly, when you live off someones labor, you tend to live worse if they escape.

[Az]

Yes, Because the baltics were the powerhouse of the SU, feeding it all.

[Saras]

Take a ****ing hint - they WERE.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Azazel
OTOH, the vast majority of the people of the SU have suffered immensly from the fall of the SU. You can talk about phones ( which haven't improved in most places, since that requires money that isn't there ), and we can talk about no central heating, no jobs, no food... and the ensuing crime, lack of personal safety, etc. etc.

That strikes me as being more the fault of the incompetent rule of the USSR rather than its fall. How would things have been better had the system fallen later than it did?

[Az]

Take a ****ing hint - they WERE.

rriight.

That strikes me as being more the fault of the incompetent rule of the USSR rather than its fall. How would things have been better had the system fallen later than it did?

Maybe if it wouldn't fall at all, all those things would still exist?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Azazel

That strikes me as being more the fault of the incompetent rule of the USSR rather than its fall. How would things have been better had the system fallen later than it did?

Maybe if it wouldn't fall at all, all those things would still exist?

It was inevitable by the mid-80's.

[Az]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
It was inevitable by the mid-80's.

Mid 80s? It was inevitable at around 88', I think.

[DinoDoc]

Now short of any further quibbling do you have a realistic answer to the question I asked earlier?

How would things have been better had the system fallen later than it did?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Az, just read what Vagabond said:

Furthermore, if the USSR didn't desintegrate in 1991, the situation would now be even worse. Well, at least for Russia

[Saras]

Originally posted by Azazel

rriight.

[q

I stand corrected - but only in terms of grain. Most of the meat and meat products, plus canned fish came from the Baltics.

[Nubclear]

Iki pasimatymo

[Saras]

whos that?

[Nubclear]

President Rolandas Pakas.