American Mythologies

[Al B. Sure!]

MrFun:

nah i'm pretty sure the first year in America saw good relations between the pilgrims and the indians. it was the ensueing years that saw both sides raiding each other.

Fuge:

Columbus was the 1st to discover America...and we never hear anything about the depopulation of the West Indies.

huh? what are you talking about? all we ever here about is how Columbus slaughtered Indians, which apparently, is not even true. Columbus even had a fondness for the Indians, a word he derived not from India (why would he ever call them Indians when he was heading for China but on the latitude for Japan) but from the Spanish word 'in Dios' or in (with) God. Though godless pagans, Columbus seems to have been one of the first europeans to see the Indians in a very european light of Edenistic noble savages.

Cowboys = good, Indians = evil savages

what in god's name are you talking about? I hate how the god damn liberals constantly make it seem like everybody has this white man is always right attitude. no one ****ing thinks that.

it's been drilled a million and one times in our heads in school, the media, and the movie industry, that the US Cavalry slaughtered Indians left and right and forced them from their homes ever since Jackson and the Trail of Tears.

The 1st Prsident of the US was technically not George Washington... when Maryland ratified the Articles of Confederation in 1781, John Hanson signed the document for Maryland and was then elected "President of the United States in Congress Assembled" Even George Washington acknowledged him as the first president.

interesting but judging from the other bull**** you mentioned, i take this 'fact' with a grain of salt.

[Al B. Sure!]

Afghanistan had nothing to do with oil - it was about sharing democracy.

there's no oil in Afghanistan except flowing through that pipeline from one of the -Stan nations do the north into Pakistan.

[Sarxis]

Wasn't popcorn invented on Thanksgiving?

Seems to me the story goes, that some Amerindians(Native-Americans[Enjuns]) brought some corn and a Pilgrim accidentally dropped it into a fire.

Ta-Da!

[Japher]

They killed witches in the Salem Witch Trials... (they actually killed dopplegangers)

Bigfoot is real!!!!

I am confused on what is a myth, false history, or just tall tales such as Paul Bunyon, Pacos Bill, etc...

[JohnT]

Obviously this is one of MrFun's "make me feel bad for being an American" threads, so I think he's looking for that "false history" category. Like this:

It is true that Cornelius Vanderbilt bankrupted many individual members of the NY City and State governments - that's the myth, one of those used to support the, imo, false notion of "robber barons." However, it is little noted and even less reported how he bankrupted these fine gentlemen, quivering as they were at the mercy of this predatory baron of profit:

The City Council shorted Vanderbilts stock, then immediately passed a law to the severe detriment of his railroad. Vanderbilt, seeing that these men were purposely attempting to bankrupt him, furiously purchased every block of share that he could, causing the price to rise, thereby blowing away the bastards who tried to get him. As he damned well should have.

Then the State Legislature got into the act, doing the exact same thing. Vanderbilt bankrupted them. As he damned well should have.

http://voteview.uh.edu/vanderb2.htm

1. First Stock Corner: Dec. 1862 Harlem directors applied for permission to lay rails down Broadway south of Union Square to the Battery. (This would have been a horse car line.) The line was approved by the City government in April 1863. Daniel Drew, a director of the NY&H then conspired with City officials to withdraw their approval in a scheme to sell the NY&H stock short. Vanderbilt learned of the scheme and began to purchase all the stock that came on the market and all the short sales. By August 1863 the stock hit $179 and Vanderbilt and his group controlled it all – the entire stock capitalization of the company, $4,217,100. The politicians then reversed their reversal and re-approved the extension of Harlem down Broadway.



2. Second Stock Corner: Because of legal entanglements the NY&H needed a bill passed by the NY State Legislature to given the NY&H corporation the authority to do the construction. The Bill was introduced early in 1864. Once again Daniel Drew and others hatched a short selling scheme on the NY&H stock. They conspired with state legislators to defeat the bill to drive down the price of the stock. And, once again, Vanderbilt and his group – who were short of cash – pooled their resources and began buying up the NY&H stock. By the end of April, 1864 the stock hit $235 and Vanderbilt and his group had bought the equivalent of the entire capitalization and some 27,000 shares besides. Scores of legislators were financially ruined.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Japher
They killed witches in the Salem Witch Trials... (they actually killed dopplegangers)

Bigfoot is real!!!!

I am confused on what is a myth, false history, or just tall tales such as Paul Bunyon, Pacos Bill, etc...

I guess if a folklore is incorporated into our country's history, then it's both -- folklore, and a historical myth/oversimplification.
Like the Thanksgiving tale.


But other folklores, such as Paul Bunyon, do not seem to be incoporated into our country's history, so they are much more of a distinctive type of folklore.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by centrifuge


Cowboys = good, Indians = evil savages

Of course, the other myth can go to the other extreme -- idealizing all Amerindian groups as being utopian, ecologically advanced civilizations who never committed atrocities against one another, or towards white settlers.


Much more factual, is that atrocities came from all groups involved at different times, and that Amerindians were nowhere near a democratic, utopian, ecologically advanced people -- about as much close to that, as white societies.

[Buck Birdseed]

...which of course doesn't matter for whether slaughtering them was right or not.

But yeah, I hate rosseau-noble-savage racism as much as anyone. I think it's a left-winger way of keeping the (in this case) red man down... Let them form their own identity for gossakes.

[Chemical Ollie]

Modern contradictions in American language:

Political Science
Artificial Intelligence
Friendly Fire
Compassionate Conservatism
War on Terror

[st_swithin]

Originally posted by Buck Birdseed
...which of course doesn't matter for whether slaughtering them was right or not.

But yeah, I hate rosseau-noble-savage racism as much as anyone. I think it's a left-winger way of keeping the (in this case) red man down... Let them form their own identity for gossakes.

I don't think we left enough of them alive to have a cultural identity - what's left now is more like an AA meeting. Oh well, at least they get their individualism; no one says that all Native Americans look alike.

[Japher]

what's left now is more like an AA meeting

exactly like a... wait! It is an AA meeting

[Imran Siddiqui]

Damn you beat me too it .

[Space05us]

Cowboys can whoop any Indian that EVER existed, unless he is Geranimo, or some other Indian bad ass. If its a bad ass then the cowboy loses, unless hes a bad ass too, like Wyatt Erp, or Billy the Kid, or John Wayne. Then they both die or they end up teaming up to kill all of the othe Indian savages!

[Berzerker]

that all southerners are straight from deliverance. that's wrong. it's only alabamans.

Deliverance was filmed in Georgia if that matters. I think Keith Olberman did a "where are they now" piece recently on the guy ("toehead") who was sitting on the porch playing the banjo in dueling banjos.

The 1st Prsident of the US was technically not George Washington... when Maryland ratified the Articles of Confederation in 1781, John Hanson signed the document for Maryland and was then elected "President of the United States in Congress Assembled" Even George Washington acknowledged him as the first president.

Hmm...live and learn...

[Q Classic]

albert, columbus wasn't the first to discover america. it was some viking dude.

Deliverance was filmed in Georgia if that matters. I think Keith Olberman did a "where are they now" piece recently on the guy ("toehead") who was sitting on the porch playing the banjo in dueling banjos.

oh, i know. near etowah, i believe. don't remember the river, but the fact remains. georgians are evolved, alabamans are not.

another myth: that all of our founding fathers were deeply christian fundamentalist puritans.