Capitalism, a false ideology?

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by Sandman
Contrary to some of the opinions expressed here, social mobility is much greater in Britain than in the US, thanks to the relatively cheap education system.

Where did you get that?

[rah]

I guess you get what you pay for.

[Az]

AdamSmith: can you get the number for Israel, please? I am just curious.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Sandman
Contrary to some of the opinions expressed here, social mobility is much greater in Britain than in the US, thanks to the relatively cheap education system.

Tell it to Provost, he's the one talking about class stratification, not I.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Sandman
Contrary to some of the opinions expressed here, social mobility is much greater in Britain than in the US, thanks to the relatively cheap education system.

Blame PH. He brought it up.

[Sandman]

Consider him told/blamed.

[Provost Harrison]

*ping*

I see very little evidence of 'social mobility' in this country.

[Sandman]

About 1 in 3 British men are in a higher social class (as defined by the type of job they do) than their fathers. Part of that is down to the creation of more white collar jobs as the economy changes, but the rest is down to other changes in society.

We're not the class-riddled society we once were, but there's still a long way to go.

[Peter Triggs]

Up until the 1980's, not only was University Education free here (no tuition fees), but also the Government (i.e., the taxpayer) would pay you to go to university, in the form of a grant. The catch was that the entry requirements were very very high: a far smaller percentage of the population could pursue their education compared to most other developed countries. Mrs. Thatcher decided to open up tertiary education to a broader base. The increased costs involved in this have meant that ever since, and this includes her Labour successors, there have been cutbacks in the grants system. I'm not sure if the government still pays your tuition fees but the actual grants have been cut back to the bone and supplemented with a student loan scheme.

In any case, you do things differently there. I believe that there are more scholarships (funded by American companies?) available. I know a bloke who, after he finished his first degree at Edinburgh, had the choice of doing a Ph.D either at London or at Rutgers. He couldn't get funding to go to London, but could at Rutgers, so that's where he went.

IMO, social mobility is probably higher in the U.S., largely because of the value placed on entrepreneurial skills in American culture. I believe that people who take risks there are more respected, even if they fail, so that they can usually try again. On the other hand, for what it's worth, according to the Sunday Times 753 of the richest 1000 people here are self-made millionaires.

[JohnT]

"In any case, you do things differently there. I believe that there are more scholarships (funded by American companies?) available. I know a bloke who, after he finished his first degree at Edinburgh, had the choice of doing a Ph.D either at London or at Rutgers. He couldn't get funding to go to London, but could at Rutgers, so that's where he went."

My wife got a scholarship literally because her mom died when she was 13. They changed the requirement since she graduated so that it applies strictly to orphans (Laura's dad was still living).

[JohnT]

"On the other hand, for what it's worth, according to the Sunday Times 753 of the richest 1000 people here are self-made millionaires."

That is pretty much the same ratio here in America, if it's not higher. As a matter of fact, of the top 10 richest Americans all but one are self-made or are 2nd generation family business(wo)men:

1. Bill Gates
2. Warren Buffett
3. Paul Allen
4. Helen Walton
5. S. Robson Walton
6. John Walton
7. Jim Walton
8. Alice Walton
9. Larry Ellison
10. Michael Dell

The only one who isn't "self-made" is Alice Walton, who has never had anywhere near as much authority over the Wal-Mart stores as her brothers or mother.

[Japher]

I looked up life expectancies, to lazy to get the link, but the US was 27th or something like that. If this is a figure to measure health care systems than I think we aren't doing too well. However, genetics, diets, traditions, social life, as well as many other factors contribute to this score... Just thought I'd point this out.

[Solly]

Forgive Rich's whining; he's just happy to pin the blame on his failure to earn big on some innate fault of the capitalist system, rather than looking at why he didn't make the most of his largely free education. Classic case of denial and attributing blame elsewhere.

The fact is that there is only a very small proportion of people who are stuck in poverty in the UK.

And global inequality is falling.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Park Avenue
Forgive Rich's whining; he's just happy to pin the blame on his failure to earn big on some innate fault of the capitalist system, rather than looking at why he didn't make the most of his largely free education. Classic case of denial and attributing blame elsewhere.

The fact is that there is only a very small proportion of people who are stuck in poverty in the UK.

And global inequality is falling.

I'm doing fine thankyou Stew, I've got more money than I can spend. So what is your excuse you poor impoverished student?

[Kramerman]

hooah park avanue