Capitalism, a false ideology?

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison


My measure of how many of the people in the world are impoverished, living in war torn countries, not able to have the most basic standard of living because their land has been confiscated for cash crops. I don't think you have to look very far at all quite frankly to notice the disparity that has occurred. Yes, we are, as westerners, accustomed to a high standard of living but at what cost? Now I am not going to be dragged into a pointless argument on modern day global communism or what it could achieve blah, blah, it is so subjective. My current problem is the here and now. And the same old political games continue.

But compare today's world with the past. Is it worse than before in terms of poverty, life expectancy, war? It doesn't seem that way to me at all, and certainly in my family things are much better now than even one century ago. The disparity is largely between those societies which have managed to master the multitudinous new means of organizing their societies to make them productive, and those that haven't. Life is still better for those who haven't managed to do so, as there is some trickle down effect for technology and generally much more wealth in the world from which to draw. So relative disparities have opened up over the past few centuries that were not there before, while in absolute terms life for the vast majority is better than ever.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison

JohnT, it's also easier if you have the right contacts and background too.

Yes, because we know coal miners and farmers from West Virginia have all the contacts needed to earn them a 7 figure net worth by the time they retire.

Oh, wait - they don't. Then how the hell did my family rise from the "muck" if it's all about who you know?

[JohnT]

"Agrarian societies? These are regions which are very fertile, just that they have governments in place who don't serve their needs."

Hm, "agrarian societies" wasn't the greatest phrase, I admit. However, I appreciate you backing off this point by admitting that it is governmental action and not economic action that is keeping the third world down. Thanks!

[JohnT]

So relative disparities have opened up over the past few centuries that were not there before, while in absolute terms life for the vast majority is better than ever.

Sikander, Sikander.... don't you realize that the fact that the "relative disparities" are all that matters to the Left?
DanS asked Che the same thing in a thread a week ago

One thing I don't understand about your position is that it doesn't take into account the fact that our economy has been declining in industry intensity for at least 50 years, but we're better off now than we have ever been.

to which I replied

His argument is based on the fact that he can find specific individuals who are not better off than they were 25, 50 years ago. It is irrelevant to the Left if one can find 3 people who benefitted for every one that didn't, the fact that not all benefitted equally is the issue here. It's arguments like these that make me realize that the Left, despite how they want to portray themselves, are the true reactionaries in this society, a ideology based upon the principle of "to each, his place."

As bizarre and totally contrary to real life sentiment as one can find, but unfortunately, all too common.

And that's all you need to know - the Left is a reactionary philosophy, one that demands that progress stop until "everybody catches up." The fact that there will be people whom, despite the best intentions of others, will never "catch up" will allow them to keep society in a perpetual stasis, where everybody knows their place.

Link: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...6&pagenumber=1

[Az]

I really like how you proudly proclaim answering questions that weren't adressed to you.

Carry on.

[JohnT]

My pleasure.

Anyway, Che never answered DanS' question and I didn't want to leave the man hanging.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by JohnT
"Agrarian societies? These are regions which are very fertile, just that they have governments in place who don't serve their needs."

Hm, "agrarian societies" wasn't the greatest phrase, I admit. However, I appreciate you backing off this point by admitting that it is governmental action and not economic action that is keeping the third world down. Thanks!

The economic debate can get very pissy and it is all so subjective anyway. What I tried to say in an earlier post is that I am not quite so idealistic about this 'holy grail' of politics that is ideal communism.

Besides, don't you ever sleep?

[JohnT]

5 hours a night. That's about as much as I can stand. Didn't you see my thread on how much I hate to sleep?

[problem_child]

I'm not sure where this thread has gone since I left it yesterday, it wasn't meant to be a communism vs capitalism thread, I don't beleive communism is natural for human beings... ants might like it, and bees and such, in fact they seem to get along pretty well in a workers state, (they even make their royalty work pretty damn hard) but not humanity.

My point was that the only reason why we have Capitalism, free-market economics and Globalisation as 'principals', is because in the past they had to be enshrined as superior to a system that specificaly promised social justice. If it weren't for that, people would still buy and sell, and occasionaly governments would protect, and tax and invest, and people wouldn't be afraid to touch the holy cow (the markets) in order to persue other priorities (like the health service (for instance the US health system is set up to benifit insurance companies and their shareholders) or education).

ps- I don't think all Americans are brainwashed, I know more about the differences amongst Americans then the average American knows about the rest of the world (taken into account that most Americans think the world is America, that's why whenever their film corporations buy a film they like the look of they always have to remake it in American terms coz overwise they don't get it).

[JohnT]

I don't think all Americans are brainwashed

followed by...

I know more about the differences amongst Americans then the average American knows about the rest of the world (taken into account that most Americans think the world is America, that's why whenever their film corporations buy a film they like the look of they always have to remake it in American terms coz overwise they don't get it).

[problem_child]

Okay you're right, I contradicted myself. I fon't think ALL Americans are brainwashed, I think MOST Americans are... brainwashed isn't really the word, more like 'conditioned' to be good unquestioning monocultured consumers, happy to pay their taxes to support their sickeningly bloated impirial military so it can stomp on stupid little brown/black/yellow non-Americans that fail to sufficiently facilitate the needs of corporations.

[JohnT]

But I repeat myself...

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Sikander
We lost 100,000 soldiers dead in hot wars against Communism, and spent untold billions on cold wars.

No kidding. Wars are like that.

Originally posted by Sikander
Many of us have witnessed firsthand the results of Communism during our lives.

What are those results?

Originally posted by Sikander
Forgive us as you might forgive a WW2 veteran for still hating Nazis.

Really? Which side got plans to start yet another war against the USSR, even go as far as perhaps propping up the Nazis? Which country put an embargo on Cuba for no reason other than it being a communist country? Who is this senator Joe McCarthy, anyway?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by JohnT
Yes, because we know coal miners and farmers from West Virginia have all the contacts needed to earn them a 7 figure net worth by the time they retire.

Oh, wait - they don't. Then how the hell did my family rise from the "muck" if it's all about who you know?

Define "rise."

If a 7 figure net worth is all you have to go by, there's not much of a "rise," is it?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Sikander
The disparity is largely between those societies which have managed to master the multitudinous new means of organizing their societies to make them productive, and those that haven't

Check out the Ginni Index, when you have time.