Rugby World Cup 2003 - Finals!

[finbar]

Still waiting for Clive Woodward to prove that he can be a gracious winner. Thus far, his only public utterances have been to the effect that he thought England were the better team and he was proved right; and, if the weather had been better, they would have won by more. In fact, in his immediate post-match interview, he was like a kiddie locked in a lolly shop. Why do I have the feeling that he will unload bucketfuls when he gets back to England?

The England players, OTOH, and J**** especially, have been splendid in their sportsmanship.

[ravagon]

That's one of the only times I've seen Jonno without that trademark dire/dour look on his face.

One thing I noticed in the closing ceremony - I don't think Wilkinson touched the cup at all.
After the cheer from around the ground when he accepted his medal I was waiting for the inevitable roar when he held the cup aloft but it never came.
A little embarassed at all of the attention perhaps?

Still nothing from Havak? Just how much can one man drink?


[Edit: I missed this yesterday but apparently it was announced that there's going to be an England-Barbarians match on the 20th Dec at Twickenham.]

[Havak]

One man can drink quite a lot (and did).

Okay lets say this – thanks to Australia for making a great final. I think it’s one of the very best games of competitive rugby I have ever seen. There is no team like them for coming back at you again and again. You never have them beaten until the final whistle goes.

That said I am hugely proud of England. The mental toughness of this team is something to behold. And the way those old, old legs went through extra time was just amazing.

This win is hugely important for the sport in this country. If, after the Euphoria dies away, it results in twenty more kids playing on past Colts level at local clubs over the next four years it will have helped the game enormously.

Okay let’s pick the bones out of the posts I drank through…

David Lyons and Nathan Sharpe are doing those jobs for us quite well at the moment, thanks.

Sharpe had a reasonable game – Lyons wasn’t very effective at all?

Could be a key to the match. Hopefully the Beer Gut's throwing will be as crap as usual.

And was. I would have had Westy on in extra time. Canon was almost as bad – Paul steadied the ship?

Johnson was immense again. Justin had a good game. Kay had a mare with his hands but did a lot of good work around the paddock.

Lyons, though, younger and no less strong, is breaking tackles and making yards.

I believe you are right. Though strangely not in the Final. Dally will not last four more years so it is time to look at the younger generation. I may have said before there’s a lad called Balding at Tigers who I think could break through – very similar to Lyons in many ways.

And, all up, what a very handy replacement to bring on with about 20 minutes to go?

Rogers was absolutely the right choice for full back. His boot was key to keeping Australia in the game. Roff, when he came on, was pretty anonymous I thought. So another good call by me saying he should have started.

I thought he was good.

You were wrong Horse. He was appalling. None of it takes away from how well Australia played but he did let Bill Young wrap him round his little finger – and he allowed very dangerous play in the line out. The penalty he gave against our tight head in the scrum late on in normal time was absolutely laughable – the Aussie loose head couldn’t stand up quick enough…

On the flip side he was dead right to ping us for stupidly using hands on the floor on several occasions, and he was right with the obstruction calls even if I did feel he missed a few Aussies ahead of the ball carrier at times.

Oh and what the hell was Larkham thinking when he tackled Cohen without the ball? He is going to be scared permanently for that decision unfortunately. To hear Gregan say he thought he had bought the dummy was rather surreal – Cohen was well behind and to the right of the ball carrier and the carrier never looked right anyway. :hmm:

Top effort from England, undermined by handling errors and silly penalties. The Wallabies showed their usual courage.

Top line about trying to conjure a defeat – it is absolutely right. Lets praise Aussie discipline though – not one penalty offence in your half in the second half of normal time I believe?

Interesting to see LDiCesare make the point about rucks. There was huge debate on Saturday about the incident where he pinged Neil Back for sliding onto his knee on the wet surface, immediately regaining his feet without being tackled by an opposition player, and then playing the ball. If that is against the laws of the game it’s new on me. Oh – I see Finbar has already discussed this…whoops.

That dropped ball over the tryline must have had Havak banging his head against the wall.

Well done England, you deserve the title of champions.

Cheers Caligastia. As for Ben Kay and the fumble near the line – lets say I could only laugh when he juggled his medal later on because the boys rescued the game.

LDiCesare wasn’t too far off with his analysis of my immediate reaction to Kay’s fumble. A few basic skills sessions for Ben I think. I suspect his England future is safe because of his qualities in the line out and the presence he brings to the ruck and maul – but you never know with Clive.

I was tearing my hair out in the pub, but I didn't know enough about the game to be genuinely indignant!

He made some bad calls in the second half in particular I think. But I’m starting to feel ungracious talking about them.

I wonder how many people had heart attacks during extra time?

At least one!

Don't worry England, you can wipe off the dust on your trophy cabinet.

The Six nations trophy went into it in March – the Cook Cup returned to it in June after a holiday in Oz with us. The hinges have never worked so hard!!

The England players, OTOH, and J**** especially, have been splendid in their sportsmanship.

Clive can be a little embarrassing in this way. He did immediately congratulate Ella and Jones after the whistle, which was nice to see. I hope, with a few days distance, he does the right thing and thanks the Wallabies.

J****, as I have bored everyone to tears with, is an extremely good sport.

Yes there is a non-test fixture with the NZ Barbarians in December. But the clubs are not happy – they have already played half a season without the big guns and there is a full league program around Xmas. The chances of that England side being the RWC one are pretty slim.

Btw Josh Kronfeld is returning to NZ after next weekends match. With Corry, Back and Moody returning and Lyle, Balding, Skinner and Johnson jnr at the club there are just too many loose forwards after too few slots. It seems the old master has decided he wants to head home. It may not be unconnected to the fact that whilst he has been skipper we have had our worst run ever - but that shouldn't be laid at his door.

[TheStinger]

Respect to the Aussie press, funny and gracious.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/rugby_world_cup/3232760.stm

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Okay lets say this – thanks to Australia for making a great final. I think it’s one of the very best games of competitive rugby I have ever seen. There is no team like them for coming back at you again and again. You never have them beaten until the final whistle goes.

Yes, it certainly wasn't the fizzer I feared. It wasn't always of the highest quality in the skills department, but that doesn't matter. Sometimes the better ones aren't.

That said I am hugely proud of England. The mental toughness of this team is something to behold. And the way those old, old legs went through extra time was just amazing.

Too big, too strong, too well drilled. The first five minutes aside, England didn't give the Wallabies any opportunities. In fact, in some ways, it was pretty much what the Wallabies did to the ABs, except, unlike the ABs, we utilised other options.

Sharpe had a reasonable game – Lyons wasn’t very effective at all?

Spot on. I have no idea what happened to Lyons. Just didn't fire. I don't know whether he found the ground conditions against him, he's a very big, heavy boy. And his absence hurt us. We needed him to bust the tackles and make the yards. Cockbain was more effective when he came on, and probably should have come on earlier. Added to which, our forwards weren't cleaning out as well as they were last week, so the ball, when it was eventually extracted, was too slow, meaning the England defence was always set.

And was. I would have had Westy on in extra time. Canon was almost as bad – Paul steadied the ship?

Canon was another who picked the wrong occasion to turn in an ordinary one. Poor throwing, and strangely impotent in the argy-bargy. He probably should have been replaced earlier.

Johnson was immense again. Justin had a good game. Kay had a mare with his hands but did a lot of good work around the paddock.

J**** was the standout. Plank tried very hard. On a par with Kay, I thought.

Rogers was absolutely the right choice for full back. His boot was key to keeping Australia in the game. Roff, when he came on, was pretty anonymous I thought. So another good call by me saying he should have started.

Roff didn't do much, but it wasn't a wingers' night. Robinson and Tuquiri were the best, but usually when they were off their wings. Cohen was pretty unsighted, except in defence, and the less said about Wendell the better. Tuquiri shows him up for the one-dimensional lump that he is. I think he'll finish up back in L*****. Tuquiri, OTOH, could be anything. Probably, eventually, in the centres.

On the flip side he was dead right to ping us for stupidly using hands on the floor on several occasions, and he was right with the obstruction calls even if I did feel he missed a few Aussies ahead of the ball carrier at times.

No, the difference was that the England runners actually obstructed. You have to remember - as Tamerlin already knows from watching Les Grenouilles' mastery of the use of decoy runners - that decoy runners are perfectly legal, until they obstruct, at which point they become illegal.

Oh and what the hell was Larkham thinking when he tackled Cohen without the ball? He is going to be scared permanently for that decision unfortunately. To hear Gregan say he thought he had bought the dummy was rather surreal – Cohen was well behind and to the right of the ball carrier and the carrier never looked right anyway. :hmm:

I saw it that Larkham, behind Cohen, was unsighted, didn't see that the ball wasn't coming to Cohen, but tackled in anticipation that it was. Pity, because having him in and out of the blood bin so many times didn't help our cause. I loved Wilkinson's tackle on Giteau, though! Wilkinson had his best tackling game I've seen from him. He caught Mortlock with his fingertips a couple of times, stopping a couple of classic Mortlock stampedes.

Top line about trying to conjure a defeat – it is absolutely right.

I did turn to Mrs finbar a couple of times to say: "Havak will be sh*tting himself". She, to her credit, watched the whole game. Have you ever tried to explain rugby to someone - so to speak - on the run? It's not easy.

Lets praise Aussie discipline though – not one penalty offence in your half in the second half of normal time I believe?

Probably right. Yes, great discipline. Great courage and commitment. But, if they'd won, which they didn't deserve to, they would surely have set a record that would never be beaten - the first team to win a WRC without a pack.

Interesting to see LDiCesare make the point about rucks. There was huge debate on Saturday about the incident where he pinged Neil Back for sliding onto his knee on the wet surface, immediately regaining his feet without being tackled by an opposition player, and then playing the ball. If that is against the laws of the game it’s new on me. Oh – I see Finbar has already discussed this…whoops.

Yes, the ref whistled it without a clear view of what happened. From what I saw, Back was on his knees, got back to his feet, then slipped back to his knees again. The ref only saw him on his knees. He was very very stiff.

Clive can be a little embarrassing in this way. He did immediately congratulate Ella and Jones after the whistle, which was nice to see. I hope, with a few days distance, he does the right thing and thanks the Wallabies.

He's had many opportunities. Instead, he's talking about an England rugby dynasty to rival the Boks and All Blacks. I think he has a fairly obvious personality flaw.

J****, as I have bored everyone to tears with, is an extremely good sport.

Yes there is a non-test fixture with the NZ Barbarians in December. But the clubs are not happy – they have already played half a season without the big guns and there is a full league program around Xmas. The chances of that England side being the RWC one are pretty slim.

I thought the game had been knocked on the head a while ago for precisely the reason you indicate.

[finbar]

Originally posted by TheStinger
Respect to the Aussie press, funny and gracious.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugb...up/3232760.stm

I should point out that the only newspaper that constantly bagged England was Murdoch's Telegraph, Sydney's only tabloid. The occasional bagging in the Sydney Morning Herald was of the tongue-in-cheek variety. Herald readers understand wit, Telegraph readers don't recognise the word unless there's a f*ck in front of it.

[Havak]

Well how does one follow a line like that?

It wasn't always of the highest quality in the skills department, but that doesn't matter. Sometimes the better ones aren't.

For sheer tension and excitement the only game I’ve been at that came close was Paris in 2001 for the cup final. Just an amazingly intense game that drew you right in emotionally.

Too big, too strong, too well drilled. The first five minutes aside, England didn't give the Wallabies any opportunities. In fact, in some ways, it was pretty much what the Wallabies did to the ABs, except, unlike the ABs, we utilised other options.

Plan B. It’s a useful thing to have in the armoury. God help them if they appoint Henry therefore.

Added to which, our forwards weren't cleaning out as well as they were last week, so the ball, when it was eventually extracted, was too slow, meaning the England defence was always set.

I think both sides slowed down opposition ball very nicely throughout.

Canon was another who picked the wrong occasion to turn in an ordinary one.

The occasion must have got to the lads. They are after all only human.

Plank was second closest after Gregan in trying desperately to stop Jonny’s last kick. Yes he matched Kay at the very least.

And don’t tell Austin but I nearly welled up when I saw Justin immediately after the game so very clearly in tears.

Cohen has had a poor tournament. Most of his work was defensive in the final – one aborted chip kick chase aside. Sailor – well what happened to that spark of nounce he showed in June? Nowhere in evidence Saturday. Tuquiri as you say on the other hand is smart, solid, very fast and has good hands – could become another Wallaby legend.

No, the difference was that the England runners actually obstructed

Obstructed at close range – sure. But those decoys have a knack of running between ball carrier and tackler which is pretty much the same thing even if he is two metres ahead of his own player rather than an English 10cm.

but tackled in anticipation that it was. Pity, because having him in and out of the blood bin so many times didn't help our cause

Certainly didn’t help it. I’m pleased there was no foul play on our part causing it. Anticipation is always risky – and this was one of the worst examples I’ve seen recently.

Have you ever tried to explain rugby to someone - so to speak - on the run? It's not easy.

I was of course ******** myself at various points. and I have had to explain games to the uninitiated before so I fully understand.

I’d like to say I hope she enjoyed it on some level – but it would sound like I was taking the mickey perhaps?

But, if they'd won, which they didn't deserve to, they would surely have set a record that would never be beaten - the first team to win a WRC without a pack.

And yet look how very close that possibility came!

He's had many opportunities. Instead, he's talking about an England rugby dynasty to rival the Boks and All Blacks. I think he has a fairly obvious personality flaw.

Has he really been spouting such nonsense? See my own hopes in the earlier post for a Realistic assessment of what this might do for grass roots.

What gets me about this Aussie blind spot is that it is exactly that – he regularly praises 6N opponents after matches. The weird thing is he spent several seasons at Manly as a player/coach – and apparently was well liked and happy there? Something has clearly changed him.

But let me be clear - it’s unforgivable. Being gracious to opponents goes with the job of coach in our sport. Do it or get the hell out the game is my viewpoint on that.

I thought the game had been knocked on the head a while ago for precisely the reason you indicate.

After Saturday they could sell Twickers fifty times over – the accountants at HQ have seen pounds signs rolling through the doors and this fixture is very much back on the agenda.

But who will play – some Aussies and Kiwis will no doubt retire this way – but not many that played Saturday I suspect (Larkham maybe?). England simply cannot field the first XV who won the cup – the club v country war will re-ignite big time if they try to!

should point out that the only newspaper that constantly bagged England was Murdoch's Telegraph, Sydney's only tabloid

Yes I had it pegged as being the equivalent of The Sun.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
The occasion must have got to the lads. They are after all only human.

Yes, and to be fair, England made it much much harder than the ABs did, which was always going to be the case.

And don’t tell Austin but I nearly welled up when I saw Justin immediately after the game so very clearly in tears.

There were tears everywhere. Even before the match - Nathan Sharp was tearing up during the anthem.

Sailor – well what happened to that spark of nounce he showed in June? Nowhere in evidence Saturday.

Because rugby doesn't come naturally to him and probably never will. Pressure is the test. If you can't react instinctively under pressure, you're in deep sh*t. Tuquiri, OTOH, who has played even less rugby than Sailor has in his life, whose only connection to the game is that his father represented Fiji, shows a natural instinct. Fundamentally, and I've said it before, I don't think Wendell is very bright, which doesn't help.

Interestingly, Tuquiri's ARU contract expires at the end of next year or the year after. Eddie is already publicly flagging the need to keep him in rugby and not let L***** buy him back. I suspect the ARU is safe. Tuquiri came to rugby (a) to test himself; and (b) because its horizons are so much greater than L*****'s. I think the WRC experience will have convinced him rugby is the place to be.

Obstructed at close range – sure. But those decoys have a knack of running between ball carrier and tackler which is pretty much the same thing even if he is two metres ahead of his own player rather than an English 10cm.

You can be 20 metres ahead of the ball carrier. The question is whether you're obstructing a defender. It's like the accidental offside law. If you don't gain advantage, it's play on. Still, I suppose we need something to argue about over the next couple of months to keep the thread alive. No doubt Mr will return to recycle his anti-SH bile.

I’d like to say I hope she enjoyed it on some level – but it would sound like I was taking the mickey perhaps?

She got caught up in the closeness of it all without ever understanding the whys and wherefores. Though I have to admit she started to glaze over when I told her we were in for yet another 10 minutes of extra time, sudden death, just prior to the drop goal.

Has he really been spouting such nonsense? See my own hopes in the earlier post for a Realistic assessment of what this might do for grass roots.

I quote Clive:

"We are still a long way from the finished article and I don't want this to be a small blip in history," Woodward said.

"I want the success of England to go on forever so that we become the leading force in world rugby and take over the mantle of the All Blacks and the South Africans."

I think you have a Napoleon Complex on your hands. Oh, and note the absence of a particular team from his short list.

What gets me about this Aussie blind spot is that it is exactly that – he regularly praises 6N opponents after matches. The weird thing is he spent several seasons at Manly as a player/coach – and apparently was well liked and happy there? Something has clearly changed him.

Yes, in fact he played #10 for Manly against a Randwick team that had Eddie at hooker, Campo on the wing, Poido on the side of the scrum, and a whole heap of other internationals. Randwick's glory days. He apparently enjoyed his time here and was popular. I don't know what happened. I doubt that the irreverent Australian way ever sat well with him. He certainly doesn't grasp the difference between criticism and taking the p*ss. It might be that he made a vow to himself that he would, one day, put the Wallabies - and Australians - in their place, and it became a singleminded pursuit. From my observation, he's a stitched-up personality, a grudge bearer, and someone who struggles with perspective. Mostly manifestations of insecurity.

But who will play – some Aussies and Kiwis will no doubt retire this way – but not many that played Saturday I suspect (Larkham maybe?).

Our only definite retirement is Matt Cockbain. Chris Latham, his world record against Namibia aside, is probably regretting changing his mind about Munster. The thing is, Wallabies can't retire from international rugby to play out their days in S12. To play S12, you have to be available for international selection. Larkham has said he'd prefer not to move overseas. Gregan, I think, would prefer to retire from the Wallabies and play S12, but knows he can't, so I reckon he'll play another international season before retiring.

Oh, and Dr Syd Miller has apologised for the bizarre way he presented the loser medals to the Wallabies - virtually trotting along the line, throwing the medals at the players. He claims he was told by a TV person to speed up things. Which doesn't explain why he went on to take his time to present the winner medals to the England players in a civilised manner. Very odd indeed.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by finbar

Oh, and Dr Syd Miller has apologised for the bizarre way he presented the loser medals to the Wallabies - virtually trotting along the line, throwing the medals at the players. He claims he was told by a TV person to speed up things. Which doesn't explain why he went on to take his time to present the winner medals to the England players in a civilised manner. Very odd indeed.

IIRC it was actually John Howard who presented the winning medals to the English team?
He's apparently been taking some stick from it too due to his rather 'surly' attitude during the process.
The guy looked as though he disagreed with something that ate him.


It seems that the 'Nine nations' idea has come up again - the proposal that it be held every couple of years apparently.
Then of course they try and placate the Pumas, the Fijiians, the Samoans, the Canadians, oh and the Americans, which, well, really makes it the 14 Nations I suppose. Then they'll be wanting to give some of the other minnows a shot too ... ergo after all's said n'done it'll be back to the status quo again no doubt.
Ho hum.

http://rugbyheaven.smh.com.au/articles/2003/11/23/1069522474724.html

[finbar]

Originally posted by ravagon


IIRC it was actually John Howard who presented the winning medals to the English team?

Yes, you're right. Anyway, he took his time.

He's apparently been taking some stick from it too due to his rather 'surly' attitude during the process.
The guy looked as though he disagreed with something that ate him.

I think it was the presentation of the cup to J**** that people are complaining about. I didn't notice. I close my eyes and block my ears whenever he looms near a camera.

[Havak]

The last few days must have been quite hard for you then Finbar? Kept bumping into things perhaps?

Yes, and to be fair, England made it much much harder than the ABs did, which was always going to be the case.

I’m very glad we didn’t choke in the final analysis.

It’s remarkable how many rugby fans are crawling out the woodwork. I never realised my sport was so popular. I need a cynical smiley.

I will be much happier when the nonsense dies down a bit. All this talk of victory dinners – don’t they know Deano wants to play all the Tigers (who didn’t play the full final) on Saturday against the old enemy (we face Bath at our place).

There were tears everywhere. Even before the match - Nathan Sharp was tearing up during the anthem.

The wives/girlfriends after the game were pretty upset as well. I thought Gregan handled himself well though – clearly keeping upbeat for his kids (however he was feeling)?

By the way I have looked closely at the ‘tinsel’ bombs that went off at full time after a tip off – all the contents seemed to be green and gold tinsel. Any particular reason?

I think the WRC experience will have convinced him rugby is the place to be.

I hope so. That kind of potential must not be lost back to the other code. I suspect you are right about Sailor. I thought at times earlier in the year he was growing a Union brain but he so clearly proved that he hadn’t in this tournament. He smacks of Henry Paul to me – very talented in certain areas but thrust into international rugby far too early. Oh and I suspect Henry shares a similar IQ actually.

Still, I suppose we need something to argue about over the next couple of months to keep the thread alive

Well it’s this - or our domestic season. Care to choose?

What is your take on the proposed new 6N/3N bi-annual tournament? Can the Celts survive that kind of intense repeated action against the tri-nations? I would have thought perhaps a top two/three from the 6N versus the tri-nations might be more sensible?

Oh and Tamerlin’s boys are already plotting our downfall in Paris come March I have no doubt.

Though I have to admit she started to glaze over when I told her we were in for yet another 10 minutes of extra time, sudden death, just prior to the drop goal.

I can almost see Mrs Finbar therefore being pleased at Jonny scoring it? What a delightful scene that must have been chez Finbar?

I think you have a Napoleon Complex on your hands. Oh, and note the absence of a particular team from his short list.

I see that very much as mouth engaged without brain in gear. It’s adrenalin and lack of sleep I hope. Although I do have a nasty suspicion the absence of a certain team is not accidental. Nowt to do with me guv.

Even so I would adopt that aim in a slightly differently phrased way. I would love to see England build from this to a point where people think of them in similar terms to NZ/Aus/RSA – as in consistently competitive, or “good” if you prefer. No more huge peaks and deep troughs. I recall the swell in player numbers after 91 – it had been totally lost by 99 so what we need now is to keep momentum for the sport. But then I may have put that as poorly as Clive given his circumstances.

I don't know what happened. I doubt that the irreverent Australian way ever sat well with him. He certainly doesn't grasp the difference between criticism and taking the p*ss.

Strewth that Randwick team must have been formidable!

This problem with Australian humour is something Clive would share with most public school types. It’s cruel and destructive and therefore treads on something they believe to be their exclusive copyright.

Still Clive is unlikely to stay on once things take a downward turn so it’s time limited problem – look at it as an Alan Jones type blip?

To play S12, you have to be available for international selection.

I can understand why this has to be – but it seems ill considered. You need old heads to stay in S12 to bring the younger heads on surely. As is patently obvious S12 does not attract NH talent so where is the experienced ‘coaching’ coming from if the pensioners all head north or retire immediately as they leave the Wallabies?

Oh, and Dr Syd Miller has apologised for the bizarre way he presented the loser medals to the Wallabies

I have a real problem with the way this Irishman did that. The excuse doesn’t wash because he didn’t even have a smile, let alone a handshake, for any of the lads. Speed does not stop you being at least courteous. It looked disgraceful on TV and the boys deserved better.

John Howard I would be less hard on – partly because Jonno would not give a fig that the guy didn’t smile for him and partly because I understand exactly how he felt.

[Tamerlin]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Havak
I hope so. That kind of potential must not be lost back to the other code. I suspect you are right about Sailor. I thought at times earlier in the year he was growing a Union brain but he so clearly proved that he hadn’t in this tournament.[/I]

I agree he should go back to L*****, he didn't show anything worthy of note.

Well it’s this - or our domestic season. Care to choose?

Now the internationals are back home the serious things are about to start.

What is your take on the proposed new 6N/3N bi-annual tournament? Can the Celts survive that kind of intense repeated action against the tri-nations? I would have thought perhaps a top two/three from the 6N versus the tri-nations might be more sensible?

As far as I am concerned, I am convinced there should be a common competition between the NH and the SH hemisperes though we should not get rid off the 6 Nations Tournament and his great history, your proposal is very sensible Havak, 9 teams would be too much.

Oh and Tamerlin’s boys are already plotting our downfall in Paris come March I have no doubt.

Needless to say it, even if we lose we have to show the English the team they have faced during this World Cup was not the "real" French team.

I see that very much as mouth engaged without brain in gear. It’s adrenalin and lack of sleep I hope. Although I do have a nasty suspicion the absence of a certain team is not accidental. Nowt to do with me guv.

This is another reason why we have to beat England in Paris...

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
The last few days must have been quite hard for you then Finbar? Kept bumping into things perhaps?

It’s remarkable how many rugby fans are crawling out the woodwork. I never realised my sport was so popular. I need a cynical smiley.

I saw footage on the news of England arriving home to Heathrow. Looked and sounded like a lot of s***** supporters welcoming them home.

The wives/girlfriends after the game were pretty upset as well. I thought Gregan handled himself well though – clearly keeping upbeat for his kids (however he was feeling)?

Yep. Matt Rogers had his kids there too. Obviously Plank doesn't have kids. Probably wise. One of him is enough.

By the way I have looked closely at the ‘tinsel’ bombs that went off at full time after a tip off – all the contents seemed to be green and gold tinsel. Any particular reason?

Tinsel doesn't come in white!

Oh and Tamerlin’s boys are already plotting our downfall in Paris come March I have no doubt.

You mean they're plotting to promise the earth only to end up delivering nought?

I can almost see Mrs Finbar therefore being pleased at Jonny scoring it? What a delightful scene that must have been chez Finbar?

Yes, she was relieved. I thought it was inevitable. If not then, in the next sudden death period. Anyway, you can't defend against the drop goal in the situation they were in.

I see that very much as mouth engaged without brain in gear. It’s adrenalin and lack of sleep I hope.

No, it's his personality. You can see it in him.

Although I do have a nasty suspicion the absence of a certain team is not accidental.

Q.E.D.

Strewth that Randwick team must have been formidable!

It gets better. I forgot to mention the Ella brothers. They were with Randwick at the time, too. I vaguely recall Randwick playing one of the touring teams. I must check which one.

This problem with Australian humour is something Clive would share with most public school types. It’s cruel and destructive and therefore treads on something they believe to be their exclusive copyright.

A-ha. It's not cruel and destructive. It's called having a lend. I'm sure the public school humour is cruel and destructive. They're called private schools here, and they have much in common.

I can understand why this has to be – but it seems ill considered. You need old heads to stay in S12 to bring the younger heads on surely. As is patently obvious S12 does not attract NH talent so where is the experienced ‘coaching’ coming from if the pensioners all head north or retire immediately as they leave the Wallabies?

The only way you could keep retired Wallabies in S12 would be to bring in a rule that specifically prohibits bought-in talent. O'Driscoll was talking about wanting to try S12, for example. It would defeat the whole purpose of S12.

I have a real problem with the way this Irishman did that. The excuse doesn’t wash because he didn’t even have a smile, let alone a handshake, for any of the lads. Speed does not stop you being at least courteous. It looked disgraceful on TV and the boys deserved better.

The players and the ARU were spewing about it. Particularly after the senior IRB bods were seen to be very loudly supporting England throughout the match. The IRB really hasn't got a clue, unfortunately.

John Howard I would be less hard on – partly because Jonno would not give a fig that the guy didn’t smile for him and partly because I understand exactly how he felt.

I'll think about the turd only long enough to suggest that any slight would have been entirely accidental. He's far too astute a politician to be caught doing anything so silly.

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Originally posted by Tamerlin
Now the internationals are back home the serious things are about to start.

What? Madamoiselle Labit will seriously contemplate purple tips in her hair?

Needless to say it, even if we lose we have to show the English the team they have faced during this World Cup was not the "real" French team.

Gee, there's a lot of imposters getting about in blue jerseys with chooks on their chests.

This is another reason why we have to beat England in Paris...

How about this for an idea? Take the chooks off their chests and put the chooks on the field. Peck 'em to death!

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Ooops. Overlooked this.

Originally posted by Havak
What is your take on the proposed new 6N/3N bi-annual tournament? Can the Celts survive that kind of intense repeated action against the tri-nations? I would have thought perhaps a top two/three from the 6N versus the tri-nations might be more sensible?

Well, it's just a mini World Cup, minus the minnows. Well, okay, Scotland will be there. Nine is too many teams. Apart from anything else, how long would it take to complete? And how loudly would the English clubs scream? Presumably it would replace the various NH tours from the SH. I think your idea of the top 3 6 Nations -v- the Tri Nations teams is more feasible. Personally, I'd rather see a return to the old 3-Test series between nations.