Rugby World Cup 2003 - Finals!

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
I never thought I would read something like that from you...


Ouch!...

I was meaning that I support them against the aussies. I already know the result of the France/England game.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Caligastia
I was meaning that I support them against the aussies. I already know the result of the France/England game.

This is exactly what I had understood...


Ouch!...

Originally posted by Davout
It is not totally impossible that the decision was not malicious and assumed that Les Grenouilles would feel comfortable under the rain.

Originally posted by MikeH
We'd have beaten you anyway.

Who knows?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


You can be sure the game will be played under the roof of the Telstra Stadium...

Wrong stadium. The one with the roof is in Melbourne. The final is played in Sydney at the stadium that was the Olympic stadium. There's no roof.

BTW, I heard this morning that Serge Betsen has been cited for kicking. I didn't see it during the match, did anyone else?

Edit. He's been cited for kicking Matt Dawson in the head while both were on the ground. I only remember Dawson bleeding copiously from the head and going to the blood bin.

Further edit. I notice that Fabien Galthié's retirement is immediate. He won't be playing on Thursday in the play-off for third and fourth.

[finbar]

Originally posted by MikeH
I hope it doesn't rain. It'd be nice if the teams had a chance to really show what they can do in good conditions.

The forecast is for showers Thursday, Friday and Saturday. It won't be the massive downpour that hit last Saturday night, but it should be enough to create greasy conditions and make handling a real challenge. Hopefully the forecast is wrong. It would be nice to see the full range of playing options available.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar
Wrong stadium. The one with the roof is in Melbourne. The final is played in Sydney at the stadium that was the Olympic stadium. There's no roof.

Sorry, I hope it will not rain!

BTW, I heard this morning that Serge Betsen has been cited for kicking. I didn't see it during the match, did anyone else?

Not me!

[finbar]

I just edited my earlier post with the details of the Betsen citing. They're replaying both SF matches tonight on FoxSports, I'll have a close look.

[Havak]

I saw the Betsen incident - shame I wasn't in Monday.

I'm sure even without reading back that Finbar got it right but basically he danced on Matt Dawsons head and the question is was it deliberate?

Right - time to catch up...

[Havak]

Go England!

Ouch, it hurts...

There is nothing I can say that will make it hurt less. I can only hope we lessen your pain by lowering the Aussie colours.

Electrical storms are common around Sydney at this time of year.

Should favour us – it will make Smithy look like a wookie whilst Backy has no hair left to frizz.

The correct decision in each case should have been a penalty, as it was in Smith's case.

I am not a fan of Paddy. I agree the card was unlucky. As we seem to agree the timing was rather silly of him.

I wonder whether Nathan Sharp holds a grudge against Jerry Collins for the shoulder charge that concussed him? I doubt it.

‘Last resort’ rugby by then wasn’t it? I couldn’t believe the way such a talented team had no plan B to be honest.

I don't know about sledging, but the England forwards were certainly very busy physically provoking the French forwards.

Well that is part of the game unless we are alleging violent foul play? It’s a mans game after all – the French are not complaining. England never cited Betsen the official did – and you can see no Englishman has been cited.

The teams that have frightened England have succeeded in preventing them from entering that comfort zone.

Spot on – and could be key on Saturday. Personally I would love rain again – and I still think Eddie needs to find a way to avoid scrums?

I thought Paddy did pretty well in difficult conditions. He was certainly very consistent around the breakdown and rucks.

He also pinged Jonno for his habit of going in before the ball is out – not lost on you I am sure?

The game that many - moi, included - thought would be the final. It will be an interesting test of the ABs' mental state.

Meaning no offence to “mes amis” I think the bigger question is how ‘up’ can France get for this game?

The challenge is to (a) be able to do it against a physically stronger side than the ABs; and (b) be able to maintain it. And if the Wallabies can't do it for sustained periods, and England is allowed to take control, the Wallabies are in trouble.

To be honest I can’t really add to that – you have it spot on. My big worry as an Aussie would be the front row and it’s ability to mix it after the injuries suffered?

One of the most interesting personal battles will be The Plank -v- J****.

He had a great game – and Thompson’s throwing remains suspect. The line out got much steadier for the few occasions Westy helmed it. But then Jonno is really playing very well at the moment. It is indeed going to be fascinating.

It was interesting to see the current Tigers' coach running around with #8 on his back. He could throw a mean punch, too.

Different era, different game. Deano is one of the most placid guys you could ever hope to see off a pitch. He was quite different on it. I’m not about to defend the tactics used – but I don’t care for the chip still carried by Aussies about it either really. They never handle foul play by their own players appropriately (remember the McCrae ‘ban’ for what was in effect Assault?) so it’s hard to take them crying wolf seriously – especially 14 years on.

You won the last series using similar tactics guys (how else would you describe the flailing arms of Grey and Finnegan in Melbourne?) – so give it a rest already guys.

…but Havak obviously hasn't!

Is there a reason that I should?

Oz have played like crap for the last 18 months and NZ was unbeaten this year.

Um – not quite unbeaten this year Caligastia (England in June) – but thanks for backing England! I hope we can do the rest of the world proud.

The final is played in Sydney at the stadium that was the Olympic stadium. There's no roof.

Do the IRB control seat allocation this time Finbar? I recall for the Lions the ‘sporting’ Aussie Union corralled the Lions fans into the far ends (by the curves of the running tracks) about a quarter mile from the pitch (small exageration) and then gave tickets to what I assume were Aussie lunatic asylum inmates to sit amongst us and spout nonsense the entire game (maybe they were just league fans).

It would be nice to see the full range of playing options available.

It’s a winter game – and we didn’t choose the venue.

More on Besten – it was around the fringes of a Ruck – he was off his feet at the side of the ruck with his legs toward England and apparently trying to regain his footing. This consisted of lying on his side and pumping his legs. Unfortunately Dawson was under his boots at the time and got pummelled. It could have been accidental – the problem is most flankers know where they are all the time and he must have realised his feet were meeting resistance you would have thought? Then again Dawson has no problems with it so who knows?

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
... he danced on Matt Dawsons head and the question is was it deliberate?

I don't think so, Betsen is not a mean player... I would not say the same thing about Magne though.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
There is nothing I can say that will make it hurt less. I can only hope we lessen your pain by lowering the Aussie colours.

Nothing short of a couple of kilos of something from Jamaica will make Tamerlin hurt less.

I am not a fan of Paddy.

Oh well, he thinks you drink too much, so you're about square.

Well that is part of the game unless we are alleging violent foul play? It’s a mans game after all – the French are not complaining. England never cited Betsen the official did – and you can see no Englishman has been cited.

I was merely noting the, um, phenomenon.

Spot on – and could be key on Saturday. Personally I would love rain again – and I still think Eddie needs to find a way to avoid scrums?

Avoiding too many scrums anyway. More importantly, keeping your forwards on the retreat and chasing.

He also pinged Jonno for his habit of going in before the ball is out – not lost on you I am sure?

I did notice. I think J**** has rushes of blood. I liked his response when he cursed, buried his head in his arms and cursed some more.

Meaning no offence to “mes amis” I think the bigger question is how ‘up’ can France get for this game?

Their 13 changes is the answer to that, methinks. And a new skipper.

To be honest I can’t really add to that – you have it spot on. My big worry as an Aussie would be the front row and it’s ability to mix it after the injuries suffered?

See above.

Different era, different game. Deano is one of the most placid guys you could ever hope to see off a pitch. He was quite different on it. I’m not about to defend the tactics used – but I don’t care for the chip still carried by Aussies about it either really. They never handle foul play by their own players appropriately (remember the McCrae ‘ban’ for what was in effect Assault?) so it’s hard to take them crying wolf seriously – especially 14 years on.

I was, again, merely nothing the, um, phenomenon. Though I have to say that I've rarely seen such coordinated foul play. Well, perhaps that Bok effort at Twickenham aside. So what happened to David Young? Oh, and Eddie's back reference to that match was plain stupid.

Do the IRB control seat allocation this time Finbar?

I think the IRB takes the cream, leaving the ARU to handle the rest. Oh, and the ARU is publicly regretting charging so much for the France and All Blacks Melbourne QFs. There were scads of empty seats at up to $250 a pop. Still, they're apparently going to exceed their budgeted $45 million profit.

And stop complaining about your seating. The ARU's first choice was to seat you in Long Bay Gaol.

[Havak]

I’d like to help Tamerlin out but that commodity sounds less than legal (possibly)?

Oh well, he thinks you drink too much, so you're about square.

Finally he gets something right.

Mr Watson for Saturday I believe? At least his blindness to forward passes this tournament should suit us both?

I was merely noting the, um, phenomenon.

Duly noted.

I wonder how Justin will react to the same phenomenon?

Avoiding too many scrums anyway. More importantly, keeping your forwards on the retreat and chasing.

Turn the Lardies you mean? Yep that’s a game plan all right – it would work. Who are the tactical kickers – apparently Larkham is not the greatest reliever of pressure from his boot if Pienaar is to be believed?

I liked his response when he cursed, buried his head in his arms and cursed some more.

“Round spherical objects” I read on his lips more than once.

David Young – you mean Dai Young the Welsh Prop? Sorry missed this first time around. Remarkable guy in some ways, he captained the mid-week team on the 2001 Lions tour. I know he retired from International rugger shortly after that tour finished when Wales got buried by Ireland – and that he played for Cardiff in club rugby. I believe he has now retired full stop (he is at least 35 so I hope he has). I believe he was a young gun on the 89 tour and involved in several punch ups? He also spent six years in League by the way (missing the 93 Lions becuase of it).

Yes the 89 Lions used tactics better employed in a boxing ring. I agree totally. I cannot even condone it when it was the Aussies they beat to a pulp (joking!). The blatant assault on F-J by Rob Jones was as obvious as anything Krige did on his blackest day. Welshmen eh?

Still, they're apparently going to exceed their budgeted $45 million profit.

Wow! That’s a nice tidy profit. And that is ARU money not RWC ltd?

And stop complaining about your seating. The ARU's first choice was to seat you in Long Bay Gaol.

With a TV I would have had a better view! And even if the guards were baiting me probably a more restful game than I got in the stands.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar
Their 13 changes is the answer to that, methinks. And a new skipper.

You can also change the number 15.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
I’d like to help Tamerlin out but that commodity sounds less than legal (possibly)?

It's never stopped him before!

Finally he gets something right.

Yes, but he'd let you enter the ruck at the bar from the side.

I wonder how Justin will react to the same phenomenon?

Hopefully with the same discipline he showed last Saturday. He settled for jamming it up them with his efforts. And the odd gobful too, apparently.

Turn the Lardies you mean? Yep that’s a game plan all right – it would work. Who are the tactical kickers – apparently Larkham is not the greatest reliever of pressure from his boot if Pienaar is to be believed?

Yes, turn them, but also send them backwards by advancing, meaning ball control. Larkham is erratic these days. Used to be good.

David Young – you mean Dai Young the Welsh Prop? Sorry missed this first time around. Remarkable guy in some ways, he captained the mid-week team on the 2001 Lions tour. I know he retired from International rugger shortly after that tour finished when Wales got buried by Ireland – and that he played for Cardiff in club rugby. I believe he has now retired full stop (he is at least 35 so I hope he has). I believe he was a young gun on the 89 tour and involved in several punch ups?

It was his blatant kicking of the Wallaby head that bothered me. And the Wallaby player's colleagues who immediately went him for it. Lucky they didn't have citing by video in those days.

Yes the 89 Lions used tactics better employed in a boxing ring. I agree totally. I cannot even condone it when it was the Aussies they beat to a pulp (joking!). The blatant assault on F-J by Rob Jones was as obvious as anything Krige did on his blackest day. Welshmen eh?

It was interesting watching the interviews with the Wallaby players that bookended the replay. Farr-Jones, who said Rob Jones remains a good mate, still seemed bewildered by the whole event. Greg Martin, who was fullback, now a commentator, said they were expecting something, but not quite what they got. Martin was Campo's victim in that bizarre bit of Campo madness by the try line that cost the try.

Wow! That’s a nice tidy profit. And that is ARU money not RWC ltd?

Yes, apparently the ARU take. The crowd figures have already topped 1.3 million.

Is it just me? Or has this site lost all its formatting? Again?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


You can also change the number 15.

Why? Do you want a run?

[Havak]

You can also change the number 15.

He looks very shaky under a high ball (in those conditions at least)?

It's never stopped him before!

It’s me it will stop. I’m very law abiding. Honest.

Yes, but he'd let you enter the ruck at the bar from the side.

I like him more already!

Hopefully with the same discipline he showed last Saturday. He settled for jamming it up them with his efforts. And the odd gobful too, apparently.

Physical discipline and keeping his mouth shut? Lets not ask for miracles from the lad.

Austin is sending him a good luck message as we speak – it reads “wish I was there” no doubt.

Yes, turn them, but also send them backwards by advancing, meaning ball control. Larkham is erratic these days. Used to be good.

Multiple phases of controlled possession driving us back – would work like a dream. It’s a huge ask of your forwards to control ball consistently for you like that – they will need to be at 100% all game. I’ve seen enough Aussie magician jobs in rugby not to rule it out!

It was his blatant kicking of the Wallaby head that bothered me. And the Wallaby player's colleagues who immediately went him for it. Lucky they didn't have citing by video in those days.

The problem with the 89 Lions Finbar is I was at Uni and playing rather than watching too often. It sounds lethal – and he sure mellowed with age.

One has to think back to the time we are discussing I suppose. The Welsh league has always been a huge ‘physical’ place to play. I should introduce you to some veteran Tigers of my acquaintance who hated going down there. But aside from that in the late 80s it wasn’t unusual to suffer popped ribs and broken noses in the line out for example - and if you ever lay across the ball back then god help you as you would be mercilessly rucked out and end up a bloody mess.

None of which detracts from the way the Lions got that tour wrong.

Martin was Campo's victim in that bizarre bit of Campo madness by the try line that cost the try.

That still ranks up alongside Greenwood running out without grounding the ball as “truly bizarre moments in Rugby”. What was going on in the head of Campo?

The two scrummies often appear together at dinners strangely – they did for one I attended in Sydney (big casino near Darling Harbour – name escapes me).

Yes, apparently the ARU take. The crowd figures have already topped 1.3 million.

I bet you could sell the final a hundred times over? Do we get a slice of that cash?
(Remember O’Neil punting for a larger take of the gate when you last toured here?).

It’s not you – the graphics are fubared again at least.