Rugby World Cup 2003 - Finals!

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
For the record it is my firm belief that French flankers never indulge in anything illegal at any time in any game – they are the paragons of virtue to which all naughty nasty arrogant English players should aspire.

Why do you need to recall the obvious?

[Havak]

Educate the educators, revise the system. And, eventually, generations of teachers will come through who have been through the revised system.

The problem is such a solution requires the Political will to carry it through. I don’t know about Australia but the Political culture here is one of targets and tables so mistakes of this nature are actually embraced and hidden in the cause of ever improving statistics. No one ever revises and improves the system – because no one will admit it was wrong to begin with.

Point in fact - unless they withdraw A levels soon they face the propsect that it will soon not be possible to actually fail one!

I can safely say that here and now. She's away in Alice Springs at the moment on a location survey.

I thought it was brave stuff.

The bought/brought confusion is rampant in this county – but unlike Mrs Finbar most perpetrators know no better. It’s not that uncommon here when someone asks a question of the form “who shouted these?” to hear the response “I brought them”. I’ve long since given up asking where exactly they brought them from (the brewery?). But the area where I would say this reigns supreme is the West Midlands (Brum awl-roight?)

It will be working long after its pulse has stopped. A deader horse will never have been flogged.

I believe you I really do. A classic no win scenario for me – if France win then I have the despair of (yet) another England failure – if England win and Catty has a good game it’s irony piled on irony for ever more?

And the ABs are talking themselves down, talking up the Wallabies. Everyone's at it. Clive's talking up the Wallabies. Anyone who takes any of it with more than grain of salt is off their head.

I wondered if you caught Clive’s comments. Sometimes I really can’t figure him out. It’s like he has this bizarre need after launching scathing attacks on your media to then prove he respects the Wallabies and loves the country and the people (except the media!).

Still the reality is he and France would love to face the Wallabies rather than the ABs – lets not kid ourselves there.

There you go with the heavy-handed again. Less is better!

Except with beer?

My natural tendency is to be verbose and obvious – I’ll try to work on it.

You sound like the worst Australian,

Ouch! That’s a terrible thing to say to an Englishman. Particularly one who has been there and knows exactly what it means!

Don't bet on it, if le sieur Wilkinson is as cold as ice, le sieur Michalack is as impertubable as a mountain.

I deeply regret that my O level has let me down – le sieur?

Although I take your point – and I suspect you aren’t saying both are frigid? Mind you Finbar may like the metaphors – one of which seems a little mixed?

We will see who's handkerchief is wet at the end of the game.

The proof of the pudding will certainly be in the eating.

(and sorry for the appalling efforts at French).

Why do you need to recall the obvious?

A very neat edit – my compliments sir!

And now I’m off to start on my first post for next week – provisional title of “England’s Glory” or alternatively “How we was robbed – whup them antipodeans please Le France”.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


IMO, the problem goes beyond the educationial system even if it holds a great reponsability in the current situation. All along my school attendance the educational system and the media told us that someone was intelligent if he was good in maths. This policy had some severe drawbacks, I quickly abandonned all claims to intelligence and the literary skills were greatly underrated.

I don't know whether it was a difference between countries, or that I went to a very good school - which I did - but, at my school, there was no distinction drawn between maths and humanities. They were simply different streams, given equal importance.

Then came the various reforms and the new methods of learning which created a whole generation of students unable to cope with grammar.

Yes, well, it sounds like we all suffered that problem.

But when someone likes to read and write there is no reason why he could not overcome such obstacles and this is here that lies the real problem as far as I am concerned. I remember the kind of authors we were forced to read when I was between 13 and 16 years old, Victor Hugo, Zola, Stendhal, Racine, Madame Bovary, Molière... The problem is that when you are a teenager (remember I was listening at AC/DC at this time) you don't care a cent about the dramas they are telling and moreover you don't have the necessary knowledge and background to really understand what they are talking about. Another problem is that a teacher is not ready to hear that you don't like a book he has asked you to read (I know that for sure, I did it).

Mmmm. I was very, very lucky. My English teacher in Years 11 and 12 was remarkable. We had all the usual set texts - Shakespeare, Thomas Eliot, Jane Austen, Chaucer, Dickens, as well as a big range of comtemporary material - but he encouraged us to challenge them - and him - if we felt we could or should. He encouraged individual thought. He drew boundaries, obviously, but there was a tremendous freedom. And I'm, um, quite a bit older than you are, so it was almost a different generation. I was listening to the Beatles!

A couple of years ago I told that teacher - Mr MacFarlane, who would then have been only about 30 - that he had, without knowing it, encouraged me to be a writer. In those days, I had no idea I wanted to be one, of course, but he gave a licence to think and dream and experiment, and that's what encouraged me. He was rather touched when I told him. He said he'd never had an original thought in his life. Even if he hadn't, what he did have was a very important gift - communication, and through it, the means to enthuse in an area that can, as you experienced, otherwise be a dire experience.

Anyway, apart from helping us to enjoy the set texts, he would take us to his home where he kept an enormous personal library. We could borrow any of his books that appealed to us - and there were books in his library that, had our parents known we had access to them, they would have been, um, rather cross. So we were exposed to a very broad range of literature.

The result is that I strongly dislike classical literature and never read such kind of books.

That's a shame. And I'm sure it's quite common. OTOH, I still think Middlemarch is one of the greatest novels ever written. I read it three times in two years when I was 17 and 18.

I am somehow a survivor of the French educational system.

I think I was probably lucky. I'm sure there are also many people here who ended up feeling as you did. Or, even, do.

Though the supposed link between intelligence and mathematics is no more as strong as it was in the past it has nonetheless caused many damages as language skills are still underrated and because a whole generation doesn't know how to read and write properly and this generation is in charge to teach their youngs how to write and read, or at least help them to do so.

I think the problems starts with educational theorists who hatch all sorts of totally unworkable ideas. A pox on them!

Another problem is that the rythm of our lives is accelerating constantly and that people have less and less time and energy to devote to their children and to reading. For most of the people, it is easier to indulge into passive activities (TV brainwash for example) rather than active ones (reading, playing and even talking).

I feel sorry for the younger generations these days. Of course, they call me a boring old fart. But I can conjugate a verb and parse a sentence and correct them when they use "less" instead of "fewer" - so f*** them!

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak


The problem is such a solution requires the Political will to carry it through. I don’t know about Australia but the Political culture here is one of targets and tables so mistakes of this nature are actually embraced and hidden in the cause of ever improving statistics. No one ever revises and improves the system – because no one will admit it was wrong to begin with.

Yes, that's always the danger. The culture is slightly different here, with pressure groups who work hard to change things. And changes happen. The reading problem - abandoning the phonetic approach - is being reversed.

The bought/brought confusion is rampant in this county – but unlike Mrs Finbar most perpetrators know no better. It’s not that uncommon here when someone asks a question of the form “who shouted these?” to hear the response “I brought them”. I’ve long since given up asking where exactly they brought them from (the brewery?). But the area where I would say this reigns supreme is the West Midlands (Brum awl-roight?)

Look, I think it boils down to laziness. I think a lot of the bastardisation of the language is laziness. Near enough is good enough.

I believe you I really do. A classic no win scenario for me – if France win then I have the despair of (yet) another England failure – if England win and Catty has a good game it’s irony piled on irony for ever more?

Let me assure you that I would rather lose the option to taunt you over a South African-born player saving your arse than have to suffer the win.

I wondered if you caught Clive’s comments. Sometimes I really can’t figure him out. It’s like he has this bizarre need after launching scathing attacks on your media to then prove he respects the Wallabies and loves the country and the people (except the media!).

All mind games. I doubt that any coach or player takes them seriously.

Still the reality is he and France would love to face the Wallabies rather than the ABs – lets not kid ourselves there.

And the French have uttered barely a squeak. They're too happily ensconced in their beachside haven over at Bondi surrounded by beautiful women and fine food. Les Grenouilles have been a huge hit, I'm here to tell you.

I deeply regret that my O level has let me down – le sieur?

Translate it as Master Wilkinson, as in Young Master, as in callow youth.

[Havak]

But I can conjugate a verb and parse a sentence and correct them when they use "less" instead of "fewer" - so f*** them!

There are less people these days who would understand what you mean.

Yes, that's always the danger. The culture is slightly different here, with pressure groups who work hard to change things

Score this one to Australia then. By a huge margin.

Look, I think it boils down to laziness. I think a lot of the bastardisation of the language is laziness. Near enough is good enough.

Partly true for sure. Here at least it is also partly tribal identity – areas define themselves through their interpretation of our language. I have had to translate for both Geordies and Scots in Sydney –it’s not just accent a lot of the words and phrases are unique variations.

Let me assure you that I would rather lose the option to taunt you over a South African-born player saving your arse than have to suffer the win.

Again you shock me to the core!

All mind games. I doubt that any coach or player takes them seriously.

I do wonder some times.

Les Grenouilles have been a huge hit, I'm here to tell you.

It’s wisely acknowledged here that the entire Aussie nation is behind them. It doesn’t really matter that they have made a good impression – the Aussies would have backed them anyway.

Remember me mentioning John Inverdale, the BBC anchor down there? He did a walkabout in Sydney on Thursday blagging Kiwis and Aussies and asking them one simple question “If X beat you in the semi and it’s England in the final who will you back?” Naturally 100% of Australians answered “the Kiwis” even if some hesitated briefly. What surprised him was despite some soul searching every single Kiwi went for the Aussies too. It is good to be so popular he concluded!

If they ask me the same question I’ll be picking X too of course.

Translate it as Master Wilkinson, as in Young Master, as in callow youth.

Merci.

*edit* Just found this on the BBC sport site

"France and England have a love-hate relationship," said Gaetan de L'Hermite who has a foot in both camps as club captain of London French, the exiles team who play in the Middlesex and Hertfordshire leagues.

"There are a lot of similarities and if you take the best of both countries then you're closer to paradise.

"My heart wants France to win and I genuinely think there's a chance for us.

"They are reaching the peak of their form and it is a completely different than the matches in the Six Nations.

"But on paper I still think England have the best team.

"We can't wait to get down the pub and watch the match on Sunday."

I just know Tamerlin will love the second paragraph of that quote. And yes as indicated by the closing comment an awful lot of pubs are opening at 8am on a Sunday this weekend.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar
... so f*** them!

This is what I think everyday of my life.

I just know Tamerlin will love the second paragraph of that quote.

... an awful lot of pubs are opening at 8am on a Sunday this weekend.

For the second time in a row a bunch of friends and I meet in my appartment to have a breakfast and watch the game. I only hope my neighbours have not planned to stay in bed late sunday morning.

That's a shame. And I'm sure it's quite common. OTOH, I still think Middlemarch is one of the greatest novels ever written. I read it three times in two years when I was 17 and 18.

I know it's a shame but there is no way to change it now, my french teachers were so stupid that they have instilled into me a disgust of classical books.

But on the other hand it opened my mind to new worlds like "Middle Earth", Ursula Le Guin's "Earthsea", Larry Niven's "Ringworld", Tim Powers' "Gates of Anubis", Jack Vance's "Tschaï" or Robert Holdstock's "Mythago Wood".

Finbar, your English teacher is the kind of teachers everybody would dream to have.

BTW, our music teacher tried to teach us how to play flute when we were listening at AC/DC and Van Halen at home. If this is not trying to pee into a violin I don't know what it is.

Havak, "le sieur" is synonymous with mister though it is nowadays seldom used. You will sometimes hear it in old French black and white movies like "Quai des orfèvres". It generally has a formal or sarcastic meaning.

[Caligastia]

Thanks to this damned delay all the rugby has been discussed by the time I get back here.

I'll just have to bring up something trivial instead...

Hey Finbar, I know you watch your rugby on Fox, so I was wondering if they were pushing Russell Crowe's new one "Master and Commander" in the ad breaks at half time down there. Here they are showing this ad that shows how Crowe got the actors who were to be his crew in the movie in shape by getting them to play rugby. He is asked which countries' team he supports considering that he was brought up in NZ and Australia and he says "Well, I follow the fortunes of the Wallabies, but the blood that runs through these veins is all black".

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Caligastia
Thanks to this damned delay all the rugby has been discussed by the time I get back here.

Are you sure you don't have any comments about what has been written?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


Are you sure you don't have any comments about what has been written?

Yes, but if I make them I'll risk sounding like a broken record...(if I respond to your comments that is )

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
Remember me mentioning John Inverdale, the BBC anchor down there? He did a walkabout in Sydney on Thursday blagging Kiwis and Aussies and asking them one simple question “If X beat you in the semi and it’s England in the final who will you back?” Naturally 100% of Australians answered “the Kiwis” even if some hesitated briefly. What surprised him was despite some soul searching every single Kiwi went for the Aussies too. It is good to be so popular he concluded!

I must be the only Kiwi who would go for England.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Caligastia
Yes, but if I make them I'll risk sounding like a broken record...(if I respond to your comments that is )

I won't give up until the end of this World Cup... or until the All Blacks play Rugby.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


I won't give up until the end of this World Cup...

Is that a promise?

You seem to of the opinion that nobody has played rugby so far in the RWC, so why watch? I guess hope springs eternal.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Caligastia
Is that a promise?

No, a fact!

You seem to of the opinion that nobody has played rugby so far in the RWC...

France, England, Wales and Scotland have...

I guess hope springs eternal.

May be one day the heretics will convert back to the original ways.

[Caligastia]

Can I get an amen brother?


Hallejujah!!

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


No, a fact!

I may hold you to that when the RWC is over.


Hey Finbar! Did you see that?! Tamerlin promised to stop *****ing about the way SH teams play rugby!