Is it true that Russian troops looted/raped Berlin mid-evil style for 3 days...

[Nubclear]

Or the issues with the Lithuanian-Polish infestation of Eastern Europe.
Once we break your backs (or rather, nuke them) then we will reclaim our territory.

[Saras]

Be my guest.

[St Leo]

Tassadar, I must have missed the part where Yahweh descended from heavens and told the wayward Russian people that Lithuania will be their homeland forever and forever...

[David Floyd]

Although Russians do have a reputation for doing what they're told...

OK, OK, my one quick anti-Russia troll...

In any case, I want a simple answer. Does anyone believe that any rape committed by either the Red Army or the Wehrmacht, or anyone else, was ever justified? Yes or no.

If the answer is "no", then I want the pro-Russians to shut the **** up with their talk about how much harm the Germans did to the Soviet Union. Yes, they did, and German rapes in the Soviet Union were JUST AS unjustified as Soviet rapes in Germany - not one bit more justified, and not one bit less justified.

If the answer is "yes", then you are saying that rape can be justified. And I won't see the need to continue this discussion, because you will have lost all credibility in the eyes of, well, everyone.

So take your pick.

[Nubclear]

Tassadar, I must have missed the part where Yahweh descended from heavens and told the wayward Russian people that Lithuania will be their homeland forever and forever...

Don't blame me.

If the answer is "no", then I want the pro-Russians to shut the **** up with their talk about how much harm the Germans did to the Soviet Union. Yes, they did, and German rapes in the Soviet Union were JUST AS unjustified as Soviet rapes in Germany - not one bit more justified, and not one bit less justified.

Alright.
Now can you admit that, from their perspective, it is understandable why they might do that?
If no...Well, you can't "prove" what everyone already knows
If yes, then maybe your not as good a troll as I thought

[David Floyd]

No, I can't understand the desire to commit rape. I'm not a criminal.

And I'm not trolling, I'm simply cutting to the heart of the matter.

So, then, you accept that the Red Army's actions were completely unjustified with regards to rape?

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by David Floyd
No, I can't understand the desire to commit rape. I'm not a criminal.

Good. I was afraid for a moment you would stop this troll

So, then, you accept that the Red Army's actions were completely unjustified with regards to rape?

Well yes, obviously. However, I can understand their motivations for doing such things.

[David Floyd]

Good. I was afraid for a moment you would stop this troll

So, then, you also accept the assertion that anyone who commits rape is a criminal, and as such, should be prosecuted?

However, I can understand their motivations for doing such things.

We aren't talking about "such things", we are talking about one specific thing - rape. I simply cannot understand ANY motivation or accept ANY excuse.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by David Floyd


So, then, you also accept the assertion that anyone who commits rape is a criminal, and as such, should be prosecuted?

Of course I do. Being in the Red Army (or any army) really is not an excuse for rape.

We aren't talking about "such things", we are talking about one specific thing - rape. I simply cannot understand ANY motivation or accept ANY excuse.

They were angry. The Germans had come into Russia and raped it in almost every sense of the word.
They wanted to release that anger out on Germany. And, they chose this way. It makes perfect sense to me.

[David Floyd]

Of course I do. Being in the Red Army (or any army) really is not an excuse for rape.

So any Red Army soldiers, or any Soviet citizen period, who participated in a rape, should have been held accountable, right?

They were angry. The Germans had come into Russia and raped it in almost every sense of the word.
They wanted to release that anger out on Germany. And, they chose this way. It makes perfect sense to me.

This is like saying that if someone comes and burns down your house, it would be perfectly understandable for you to rape his wife.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by David Floyd


So any Red Army soldiers, or any Soviet citizen period, who participated in a rape, should have been held accountable, right?

Yes. Soviet citizens deserve no special treatment, they should not be able to rape people and got off without a punishment simply because they are Soviets.
And neither do Americans, whether they be normal citizens or...GIs

This is like saying that if someone comes and burns down your house, it would be perfectly understandable for you to rape his wife.

Thats an over-simplification. It's more like saying if one nation burns down another nation, it would be perfectly understandable for you to rape its women

[David Floyd]

And neither do Americans, whether they be normal citizens or...GIs

Quite agreed. You can't get me, of all people, on this point.

Thats an over-simplification. It's more like saying if one nation burns down another nation, it would be perfectly understandable for you to rape its women

So in what cases is rape understandable? Only when one nation almost destroys another one?

And by the way, when you make the distinction that rape is understandable in certain cases, you are about half a step away from saying rape is acceptable in certain cases.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by David Floyd
And by the way, when you make the distinction that rape is understandable in certain cases, you are about half a step away from saying rape is acceptable in certain cases.

How? Criminal psychologists try to understand motivations for crimes all the time...Does this mean they are half a step away from saying criminal behavior is acceptable?
One can't solve problems simply by looking at the criminal and locking him up. You need to understand why it happens, and what generates it, etc etc.

I know a ton of people who have been raped, and quite a few of them are very dear to me. Trust me, I'm NOT going to be going around condoning rape. It is one of the most digusting, vile crimes humans can bestow upon each other.

Hmm....Say your wife is raped. You know who did it. Most husbands will feel an incredible urge to kill the person who did it. This is understanding murder.
But by saying this, do I say murder is condonable? No.

[David Floyd]

There is a difference between saying you understand the flawed reasoning leading to the crime and saying that the crime itself was understandable. It seems to me that you are saying the latter, although I could be wrong.

I quite understand the flawed reasoning used by the Red Army (reasoning promoted by the Soviet leadership, BTW), but their crimes still aren't understandable.

[Nubclear]

So in what cases is rape understandable? Only when one nation almost destroys another one?

Not only, but amongst...well....uberpatriots it certainly is a foreseeable possibility and when it happens it really is no surprise.
Most rape cases are beyond my grasp. I don't know why, and can't concieve a rational possiblity (thus having to fall on the "mental disorder/evil" line) why someone would just kidnap a person and rape them.
However, if the victim is close to someone whom has harmed the criminal in some way...It makes a little more sense.