Malaysian PM spaeaks out aginst Jews!

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse


That's a very sad story. My sympathies.

Thanks, but I didnt post it for sympathy - im really quite fine about it. I posted it for insight - and to raise a question - which you havent answered - do you think Israeli behavior was the source of that antisemitism?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
you basically have no idea what you are talking about, do you.

I dont know nearly as much about southeast asia as i would like. i would appreciate learning more.

Which does not contradict anything Ive said.

[Alexander's Horse]

well I've been around East Asia for over 15 years, been to Malaysia several times, and I never noticed any antisemitism until the intifada.

But really it was more anti Israel sentiment. Many Jewish people live quite happily in East Asia, mainly because people in that part of the world wouldn't know what a Jew is. They have an idea what a Jew is but couldn't tell a Jew from another European.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
well I've been around East Asia for over 15 years, been to Malaysia several times, and I never noticed any antisemitism until the intifada.

Ok. Some relevant empirical evidence at last. That IS evidence that the antisemitism in Malaysia is largely due to events in Israel/Palestine. Thanks for the info.

Now some follow up questions - the intifadah began at the end of 2000. The southeast asia financial crisis was in 1998. Were you in Malaysia between 1998 and 2000? Did you notice any antisemitism in Malaysia then?

Have you spent any time in Indonesia? Indonesia, unlike Malaysia, is said here to have a substantial community of Wahabi muslims (due to recent Saudi subsidies, outreach, etc) Unlike Malaysia, the President of Indonesia, Megawati Sukarnoputri, though critical of Israel, is not known for the kind of statements Mahathir is known for. Could you charecterize differences between Indonesia and Malaysia in this regard?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
They have an idea what a Jew is but couldn't tell a Jew from another European.

have you ever read Philip Roth on why Jews like Chinese restaurants?

[dannubis]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Thanks, but I didnt post it for sympathy - im really quite fine about it. I posted it for insight - and to raise a question - which you havent answered - do you think Israeli behavior was the source of that antisemitism?

no but the current situation in Israel and the "measures" taken by the Israeli governement won't improve this anti-semitism feeling neither.

and the story, sad as it may be, does not take place in south east asia ...

but i admit, if Israel wouldn't exist they would have found somebody or something else to rally against ...

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by dannubis


no but the current situation in Israel and the "measures" taken by the Israeli governement won't improve this anti-semitism feeling neither.

and the story, sad as it may be, does not take place in south east asia ...

but i admit, if Israel wouldn't exist they would have found somebody or something else to rally against ...

My point was that the absence of Jews does not prove that antisemitism in any particular place is only (or even primarily) a result of Israeli behavior.

When antisemitism breaks out, it is appropriate to condemn and deal with it - not to change the topic to middle eastern politics.

Israel should NOT violate Pal rights, and SHOULD attempt to reach a peace with the Pals. It SHOULD, meanwhile, do what is necessary to defend its citizens against those who would murder them, for whatever reason. And we should not count on antisemitism around the world, or anti-americanism, or terrorism, or Al qaeeda, going away if and when an Israeli-Pal peace settlement is reached.

[Kropotkin]

Originally posted by problem_child
All you know about Africa is what your state controlled media service tells you about it to make you feel lucky to be American. Good news is no news, Africa isn't all famine and war, there are nations that have come along way forward since colonialism and the creation of arbituary rescource-gathering demarcations for borders.

Too bad, but I'm not feeling lucky to be an american. I'm not american.

I'm well aware that africa is not just famine and (civil) wars. But I cannot say that the development has been great in any way. The continent is actully producing less food per head than they did 50 years ago. The political systems are mostly useless etc.

Nevertheless, you're missing the point. Maybe not that strange as it wasn't adressed to you in the first place, but still. My point was that it's way to simple to say that "[muslims] are the only group in the world which has managed to slide backwards since the end of WW2." Africa is not doing great either. Maybe the term muslim isn't that good a term to use to divide countries up in failures and success-stories.

[Seeker]

LOL Oh geeze, finally finally SOMEONE is speaking out against 'the Jews'!

Someone has had the GREAT COURAGE to stand up and say (what has been bleated many many times by every cheap yokel trying to distract the people) what needed to be said!

What tremendous moral vision! Obviously the Jews have been having it FAR too easy lately and it's time some great leader 'Broke the Silence'....


I wonder what Mahathirs AMAZING REVELATION will provoke? Will there be a great revolution in civilized circles at his PROFOUND insights??

NOTE: You may have missed the OBVIOUS LABOURED SARCASM

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
well I've been around East Asia for over 15 years, been to Malaysia several times, and I never noticed any antisemitism until the intifada.

That's actually irrelevent. Not being Jewish, you'd be less likely to more subtle aspects. I never saw any antisemetism in the Western suburbs of Chicago, not even when the Nazis were trying to march in Skokie. People were upset about the damn Nazis. Yet, not far away in the south suburbs, a future aquiantance of mine was getting his ass kicked for being a Jew, having a principal pull him out of class to make sure he didn't interfere with plans for the school's Christmas play, etc.

[lord of the mark]

AP (via Haaretz)

'EU fumbles over statement blasting Malaysian PM for remarks against Jews

By The Associated Press

BRUSSELS, Belgium - French President Jacques Chirac
blocked the European Union from ending a two-day
summit Friday with a harshly worded statement
condemning Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir
Mohamad's remarks about Jews a day earlier.


Backed by Greek Prime Minister
Costas Simitis, officials said,
Chirac objected to a few short
sentences in a 19-page summit
statement deploring Mahathir's
comment at an Islamic leaders
summit that "Jews rule the
world by proxy."

Foreign ministers Thursday night
had drafted a text that said: "His unacceptable
comments hinder all our efforts to further
interethnic and religious harmony, and have no
place in a decent world. Such false and
anti-Semitic remarks are as offensive to
Muslims as they are to others."

Italian Foreign Minister Franco Frattini told
reporters Thursday night Mahathir's remarks
were "gravely offensive."

But when the paper was handed to EU leaders
Friday morning, Chirac said there was no place
in an EU declaration for a text of this kind,
diplomats said. Other leaders agreed, although
the Netherlands wanted the wording to stay in
the declaration.

The leaders then compromised by having Italian
Premier Silvio Berlusconi, the summit host,
criticize Mahathir at his closing news
conference.

Officials said the draft text also would be
issued as a separate statement and would be
posted on the EU presidency website.


Berlusconi told reporters Mahathir's comments
about Jews undermine efforts to bring different
religions closer.

"All of our efforts must go toward a dialogue
between the Western world and the Islamic
world, between Christian religion and Islamic
religion," he added.

Britain summons Malaysian diplomat
Britain summoned Malaysia's top diplomat in
London on Friday to express concern about
Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad
remark that Jews rule the world, the Foreign
Office said.

Malaysian High Commissioner Mohammed Dato'Abdul
Aziz was summoned Friday morning to meet
Minister of State Mike O'Brien "to raise our
concerns directly about Prime Minister
Mahathir's speech," the Foreign Office said.

"It's unfortunate that Mahathir chose to make
these remarks which we regard as unacceptable.
It's particularly regrettable that some of his
positive and welcome messages, such as
negotiation being the right path to peace and
the futility of terrorism, have been obscured
and overshadowed by racist remarks," the
Foreign Office said.

Netherlands
UK
Germany (in another article)
Berlusconi
Chirac
Simitis

[Seeker]

"The leaders then compromised by having Italian
Premier Silvio Berlusconi, the summit host,
criticize Mahathir at his closing news
conference."

That smacks that some considered it 'dirty work' to give to their pet clown.

I doubt they would entrust Berlusconi with speaking for the EU if they wanted to taken seriously.

Having Berlusconi say it means 'we don't take it seriously'

[lord of the mark]

mahathir defends himself

AP

'"The fact is that they are biased, most of them are biased. They think while it is proper to criticize Muslims and Arabs, it is not proper to criticize Europeans and Jews," he told a news conference after closing the summit.


"If the Muslims can be accused of being terrorists, of course others can accuse the Jews of being terrorists also." '


Can someone please tell me when in the last 2 years a western head of state has accused muslims IN GENERAL of being terrorists?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Seeker
"The leaders then compromised by having Italian
Premier Silvio Berlusconi, the summit host,
criticize Mahathir at his closing news
conference."

That smacks that some considered it 'dirty work' to give to their pet clown.

I doubt they would entrust Berlusconi with speaking for the EU if they wanted to taken seriously.

Having Berlusconi say it means 'we don't take it seriously'

Maybe it just means he was the summit host?

[Dinner]

How could Chirac get away with not condemning this crap? This smells like Chirac is once again pandering to the bigots in France's Arab community.

Italy
UK
Netherlands

France
Greece