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One Hundred Fifty Billion Dollars

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  • #76
    That's how it's being presented where exactly?


    You are giving them money that your government has borrowed (and has to pay interest, a recurring cost on) - but you have no official deal whatsoever for Iraq to 'pay it back'.

    If you think that is a profitable, non-recurring cost way to lend money how about you lend me some under those terms
    19th Century Liberal, 21st Century European

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    • #77
      The point is, the concept is that we are lending money to them. That's how it's being presented.
      Who is presenting it that way?

      The only way we'll be paid back is by a more stable government that grows into a role as a swing oil producer.
      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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      • #78
        yeah

        i don't know where this "lending them money" thing is coming from

        ps i don't trust freako's eurocom slanted statistics
        We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

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        • #79
          Why don't you trust the statistics I quote Ted?

          They all come from reputable international sources (BEA, OECD, IMF etc.)

          Where would you prefer I get them from, you?
          19th Century Liberal, 21st Century European

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          • #80
            yeah
            We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

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            • #81
              19th Century Liberal, 21st Century European

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              • #82
                Originally posted by skywalker
                The point is, the concept is that we are lending money to them. That's how it's being presented. Therefore, for us, it is non-recurring.
                Nope, we're spending the money. They don't owe us free oil, or anything else. Hell, they don't even have a government that can enter into that type of deal. We sure as hell can't enter into it "on their behalf" and expect them to honor it.

                It's money down the tubes.
                When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

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                • #83
                  The US has problems far worse than just Dubya! It's so bad even, that they have to get an Austrian to be governor of your richest state.
                  Wyoming probably has more money, California is constantly in debt trying to buy power and water off of other states.

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                  • #84
                    Still, remember the Marshall Plan? Not one single post here has mentioned the Marshall Plan. History records that the Marshall Plan, more than anything else, made European recovery from WWII a complete success. Should we forget the lessons of history with Iraq?

                    the marshall plan worked for europe because
                    1) our cultures are not that different from each other : we share the same general view on society
                    2) we had a common enemy : the soviet union

                    in iraq there is a totally different culture on which the US wants to impose its view of a free society. In addition the US is state enemy number 1 in most of that region of the world...
                    thats why iraq will never become pacified enough to even start reconstruction.
                    "Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Space05us
                      Wyoming probably has more money, California is constantly in debt trying to buy power and water off of other states.
                      Constantly in debt? Just two years ago we had a surplus bigger then the entire bidget of most states. How does that equal constantly in debt in your mind?
                      Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by DanS
                        Some things to point out.

                        (6) This expense is non-recurring.
                        Non-recurring hopefully, but as it is totally financed by increasing the debt, it will generate an additional charge of interests for the future.
                        Statistical anomaly.
                        The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

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                        • #87
                          Before I say anything, I would like to congratulate everyone for remaining semi-civil, these topics normally explode to the point that everyone just calls everyone else names without even discussing the argument at hand.

                          1). The figures are right about most of the money bieng used fro the military. As far as procurment (as this is what I do) we have SECURED (that is important in the world of military spending) funds for Carriers, the Littoral Warfare Ships, the converisn of 2 SLBM sub to SLGN subs, The Destroyer program is on track and paid for. Joint Strike Fighter is a go, F-22 was saved, as well as research none of us will know about for some time. We know were the money is going, and it is not so much an extra expediture as a restoring the stripped military budget from the Clinton years to its needed level. The current level is no where near the highest it has been.

                          2). As far as pissing away money we could be using here in the states, liberals have would piss it away far faster here than Iraq could ever do. They have perfected sink hole spending for 30 years. I find it HILARIOUS that liberal/socialist/eurocom whatever you ares are critisizing a conservative Republican administration for throwing money away on hopeless programs. Talk about hipocrits. BTW, anyone here have any idea how many people are employed building a Destroyer, how about an Aircraft Carrier. Money on the military filters down (not 100%) because guess who we buy the majority of our stuff from.

                          3). Anyone also want to guess what it cost to play the Iraq thing the UN way for the last twelve years. We are talking at least one carrier battlegroup In the Persian Gulf at any one time. The airbases and forward deployed aircraft and troops, logistics staff, etc. ect. We easily spent over 200 billion a year maintaining those forces but that was Okay with you all. And occupation (especially when we can't do it right because we have interferance from whiny no nothing punks) takes time, it was expected to take a few years. Despite what you heard from anyone, the military always knew this (bieng obvious and all).

                          4). And then there is that whole thing about there being no action that would please most of you. No matter what Bush did we would still be on a similar thread listining to you spout rhetoric fron an idealogical rather than pragmatic standpoint. World sucks, people die, wars happen. Just because most of you posters live in little bubbles of peace and prosperity maintained by the very people you attack so often doesn't mean the outside word works that way.

                          And lastly, you know that whole Bosnia thing where it was so important that we help them out (and it was), there is no differance between what happened there and Iraq. We need to be there.

                          And a personal note form me. All the Euros who bach at our insistance on being in contol of the Iraq operation. We are the best at this whole military thing. We pay for NATO and the UN anyways, our terms are not outrageous. UN had a plan to deal with Saddam and Iraq, it was stupid and doomed to fail and did. Ours is working, however slowely, get over it. UN did nothing but prove its incompotence, ineptitude, and deadlock over the last decade and now you want to be in charge? Are you kidding. Even when the UN does these operations most of the troops are American, under American commanders by your own mandate anyways. Stupid.

                          (btw, I am on an 8 hour watch right now and have nothing better to do, so excuse the rant. Feel free to use whatever ammunition you think this gave you )
                          "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Patroklos
                            All the Euros who bach at our insistance on being in contol of the Iraq operation.We are the best at this whole military thing.
                            Funny man.

                            That's just what a bunch of Yanks said about Vietnam.
                            Some cry `Allah O Akbar` in the street. And some carry Allah in their heart.
                            "The CIA does nothing, says nothing, allows nothing, unless its own interests are served. They are the biggest assembly of liars and theives this country ever put under one roof and they are an abomination" Deputy COS (Intel) US Army 1981-84

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                            • #89
                              Is that an English flag I see, how many of your ships did the Argentines sink? I am glad you enjoy laughing at the casualties of your allies, I will leave the smilies out of my comment because it wasn't funny.

                              Vietnam had nothing to do with our lack of military skill, it was that our leaders didn't have enough political skill to let us use it. in there defense though, they were only liberal democrats, can't expect too much out of them. (even with their interferance 56,000 to 2 million over 12 years makes Vietnam one of our best on record by the numbers. 2 million is Vietnams number btw, ours is 3).

                              By the way, Vietnam is a perfect example of what happens when we let people such as yourself, Cruddy, have imput inot military/political desicions. Thank you for illustrating that brilliantly with your acinine comment.
                              "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Patroklos
                                Is that an English flag I see, how many of your ships did the Argentines sink? I am glad you enjoy laughing at the casualties of your allies, I will leave the smilies out of my comment because it wasn't funny.

                                Vietnam had nothing to do with our lack of military skill, it was that our leaders didn't have enough political skill to let us use it. in there defense though, they were only liberal democrats, can't expect too much out of them. (even with their interferance 56,000 to 2 million over 12 years makes Vietnam one of our best on record by the numbers. 2 million is Vietnams number btw, ours is 3).

                                By the way, Vietnam is a perfect example of what happens when we let people such as yourself, Cruddy, have imput inot military/political desicions. Thank you for illustrating that brilliantly with your acinine comment.
                                Ignorant american, that is a UK flag.

                                They sank quite a few of our ships whilst our allies bravely sold us weapons.
                                Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
                                Douglas Adams (Influential author)

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