US Army prevents marriage to Iraqis

[Theben]

Okay, read the column.

The sargeant major is, if quoted correctly, being an azz. Hill has a better assessment but I think his reasoning is faulty. The two men obviously have feelings for the women already, otherwise they would not have converted to Islam. To keep them out of touch with their wives (or even if not married, fiances) and leaving the women in dangerous settings will cause the men, IMHO, to be even more distracted from their duties.

The men should get punished for disobeying a direct order, but the army should take a serious look at the idiot issuing the order.

[monolith94]

The two women are doctors, if I read the article correctly. They probably met while the soldiers were protecting a hospital or something...

And not all of Iraq is a war zone - just scattered areas are.

[MichaeltheGreat]

The military has had a long standing (i.e. back to the beginning) policy regarding overseas stationed enlisted personnel marrying foreign nationals.

Partly this is so every other horny, lonely farmboy didn't get hitched to the first piece of tail that would have him, then get back to the US and lose interest once the reality of culture clash and intercultural marriage set in.

Partly it's to prevent abusive situations wrt brokerage or exploitation of the women.

Partly it's to prevent exploitation of naive dupes being used as meal tickets to get to the US and automatic green cards (or semiautomatic now that you get a temporary green card first and have to stay together until the permanent one issues.

Can the military void a lawful marriage that has already taken place? No.

Can they deny permission to personnel who request it? Yes.

Can they court martial personnel for disobeying those orders? Hell yes.

Should they? It's a very tough call, but occupation of a foreign country you've just conquered is a problematic situation, especially when the culture and social mores are as different as they are between the US and Iraq.

Is it a potential security risk? Yes, so is every form of contact with the locals.

It's something that should be handled on a case by case basis, but setting up boom-boom houses really ain't gonna fly, and you have a lot of unattached, horny young personnel there, so it can be a real problem.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Theben
And who cares what the extremists think.

Oh, maybe the people whose brains get splattered on the road when they get shot by the extremists, or who get their asses blown through a concrete wall when a car bomb goes off....

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Theben
I don't think the experts will give you a different answer. Since when has an invading (liberating for you right-wingers ) army NOT fraternized with the enemy's women? Normans/franks, Arabs/goths, romans/mediterraneans, chinese/everyone around them, homo sapiens/neanderthals, etc.

The historical mode has been "kill the men and boys, rape and enslave the women and girls." Something we've tried to avoid in the last century or so.

And these unions do help build trust between both sides. Imagine what it would be like if if we said no, i.e. "those women aren't good enough for us."

Just fine with everyone.

Instead, what you get is:

"That's the hussy that made mah poor little boy convert to that heathen religion so they could have their heathen "wedding"

"It is not enough that they come to steal our oil, now they dishonor Allah with their false conversions and steal our women"

Blah blah ****ing blah.

It's not like running our new colony isn't giving us enough headaches.

[Theben]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Oh, maybe the people whose brains get splattered on the road when they get shot by the extremists, or who get their asses blown through a concrete wall when a car bomb goes off....

So we should cater to their desires because they kill us?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Or they kill the women... or...

Meanwhile, we have a country to run, and not waving red flags in front of bulls unecessarily is generally a good idea, especially when you're in the middle of the ****ing pasture.

The other side of the coin is there are a lot of cultural / social / religious conservatives over there who don't fall in the extremist category (yet), so not antagonizing general accepted cultural and social norms in the territory you occupy is occasionally helpful.

Our job is to run the ****ing country, not to run a ****ing dating service.

[Theben]

Drake: Doesn't matter if I believe it or not (I don't). It matters if religious extremists living in the country believe it.

This is what I was referring to when I said, "who cares what they think." And I meant it in general. I wasn't referring to local moderates or conservatives. Yes, we SHOULD care what they think. The extremists will hate us and shoot at us regardless.

I agree with the points you made on your 1st post. But from the article, the point raised by the commander was that they would be distracted from their duties if they got married. Which is bs, IMHO. They'd be less distracted if the women were in the U.S, and if they weren't going thru the court martial wringer. The feelings were there for the women anyway. If this hadn't been overblown by media coverage, it wouldn't have been a 'red flag'.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Theben


The extremists will hate us and shoot at us regardless.

Yep

[yavoon]

happens all around world. if poor unskilled dirty men w/ big dongs could marry american women they would.

[Ben Kenobi]

I see your point MtG, the problem with the Iraqi women using the American soldiers as a meal ticket to get to the US.

Something all the men ought to consider when prepositioned.

[Az]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Have the Israelis tried this? It could solve many problems.

Doesn't end well. Hell, what would happen to such women is being outcast, AT BEST. And this is our own citizens I am talking about.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
I see your point MtG, the problem with the Iraqi women using the American soldiers as a meal ticket to get to the US.

Something all the men ought to consider when prepositioned.

The men are mostly the ones doing the hunting. You have tons of young, horny, red-blooded USA government issue, flag-waving testosterone over there, with nothing to do with itself.

And the thing is, unlike places like Vietnam (which had it's own sex industry well established) we just can't go set up boom-boom houses in occupied Iraq.

The issue is a mess all around, one of those unfortunate aspects of occupation. And one of those reasons to be thankful you're not a commanding officer of a unit over there.

[Ben Kenobi]

You have tons of young, horny, red-blooded USA government issue, flag-waving testosterone over there, with nothing to do with itself.

It still takes two...

I'm sure both will be amenable to a relationship. given the current situation.

[Kirnwaffen]

Out of curiosity, is there any way to contend that the order, assuming it was given, was unlawful?