Eat this Saddam lovers

[TCO]

Originally posted by Osweld



Yes. The military talks about how precise they're bombs are. how all-knowing and infallible their intelligence is. How they can, as I said, see the logo on a golf ball from a satallite. But can still blow up a red cross hostpital and not give a damn.

(Ming spare me.) The military never claimed that they could make sure all bombs land on target. Show me the specific statement from the military that is incorrect.

You built up your own straw man from little snippets on the news and through jumping to conclusions. The real world is not a Civ game. If we had perfect strike capabilities (including perfect intelligence and delivery) than the groundbreaking thing would not be elimination of civilian casualties it would be the elimination of any need for "re-strike".

[SpencerH]

When I saw the thread title and who started it I knew it would be fun reading!

The significance of the find is that it reiterates the point that there are still weapons caches all over the country. The chem weapons will be found if we're given enough time. The bio-weapons are probably gone since they're easier to destroy quickly.

If Sadie was such an astute politician, and if Iraq had no WMD, would one of the Sadie-lovers out there please explain why he did not simply open up the country to the inspectors? If he had done that he would still be in power and happily allowing dobermans to kill and eat the generals he distrusted

[TCO]

Old Europe was in shock when we were welcomed by the Iraqis. Now they try to say that we are not welcomed when a clear majority does.

[Berzerker]

First, he did allow inspectors in but according to Scott Ritter, the CIA was using the inspections to gather information on Saddam, his movements, and his hideaways. The inspectors were pulled out at the request of Bill Clinton prior to the bombing campaign of 1998 and didn't go back. Second, I've heard the explanation that the Iraqis didn't want neighbors like Iran to know if they had weapons for fear of an invasion, so, they had a "beware of dog" sign left on the fence but no dog to back it up.

Time will tell if they have WMD buried somewhere, but I'd think we'd have gotten someone to talk by now...

[el freako]

Now who's building straw men?

Us Euro's always expected the Iraqi's to be pleased at the ousting fo their despot - the question we asked was whether they would be willing to live under american rule for the time needed to install a truely democratic government (i.e. 5+ years)

[TCO]

I doubt that we will find caches of chemical weapons. We have already found hidden documents for nuclear production and have found two trucks for bio-work. And a lot of the chemical and nuclear industry was meant to be dual use. No doubt. But the key thing was that he did not comply with the inspections and that we know that he is a hazard since he has actually used these weapons in the past and has sought development for decades. If the UN had invaded in 1998 when inspectors were thrown out, this would not be a debate between Old Europe and the US. Instead, they took the road of appeasement.

[GePap]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
So you Radical Liberal's contention is that Hussein was allowed under terms of the cease-fire to have SAM's ?

I give up on you worthless *******s.

This is Fez level logic.

Hmm, under the cease-fire agreement he was allowed ballistic missiles with ranges under 93 miles (150 km), tanks, aircraft, an army of over 300,000..but somehow not shoulder-held anti-aircraft missiles (though he could keep SA-2's and other SAM installations against high-flying warplanes)...yesh Sloww, you trully prove your knowledge on this area..........

Old Europe was in shock when we were welcomed by the Iraqis. Now they try to say that we are not welcomed when a clear majority does.

Ah, the old "talking out of one's rear" routine..wait, this is from TCO, that isn't old.

You know, we should really dig up the war time threads an examine the record and see who's turned out more wrong....

[GePap]

Originally posted by TCO
I doubt that we will find caches of chemical weapons. We have already found hidden documents for nuclear production and have found two trucks for bio-work.

Actually, the admin claims the trailer were for bio-wrk but has been unable to convince any independent analysts that they have anything close to conclusive proof..more people think the Iraqi claim of their use is more likely. Keep up with the news.

[Berzerker]

That was my thought Ben, a great sig line.

[TCO]

Originally posted by el freako
Now who's building straw men?

Us Euro's always expected the Iraqi's to be pleased at the ousting fo their despot - the question we asked was whether they would be willing to live under american rule for the time needed to install a truely democratic government (i.e. 5+ years)

Paiktis was honest. He said there was surprise at these images. I remember.

[TCO]

Originally posted by GePap


Actually, the admin claims the trailer were for bio-wrk but has been unable to convince any independent analysts that they have anything close to conclusive proof..more people think the Iraqi claim of their use is more likely. Keep up with the news.

What are the trucks for?

[Bosh]

If the UN had invaded in 1998 when inspectors were thrown out, this would not be a debate between Old Europe and the US.

The inspectors were never thrown out, only ****ed with a bit and then left. It also should be noted that the US inspectors were engaged in espionage:

http://www.fair.org/activism/unscom-history.html

[TCO]

Originally posted by GePap


This is Fez level logic.

Hmm, under the cease-fire agreement he was allowed ballistic missiles with ranges under 93 miles (150 km), tanks, aircraft, an army of over 300,000..but somehow not shoulder-held anti-aircraft missiles (though he could keep SA-2's and other SAM installations against high-flying warplanes)...yesh Sloww, you trully prove your knowledge on this area..........

Old Europe was in shock when we were welcomed by the Iraqis. Now they try to say that we are not welcomed when a clear majority does.

Ah, the old "talking out of one's rear" routine..wait, this is from TCO, that isn't old.

You know, we should really dig up the war time threads an examine the record and see who's turned out more wrong....

Feel free. Start with Roland's Stalingrad thread at Counterglow. And note that I had to hunt him down to acknowledge he was wrong. He was more interested in argument-winning or the appearance of it than admitting error.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Boshko

The inspectors were never thrown out, only ****ed with a bit and then left. It also should be noted that the US inspectors were engaged in espionage:
http://www.fair.org/activism/unscom-history.html

Saddam did not cooperate with the inspections. Just like Hitler did not abide by the Versailles treaty when he entered the Rhineland. And in both cases, the dictator was not held accountable until later.

[el freako]

Originally posted by TCO


Paiktis was honest. He said there was surprise at these images. I remember.

If I remember correctly the surprise was at the rapid collapse of the Baathist regime.


Presumably the US was also surprised by the suddeness of the collapse, otherwise they would surely have had a coherent plan in place for administering the country.