Which part of murder is immoral?

[johncmcleod]

Which part of murder is immoral? Is it ruining the lives of the people close to that person? Is it cutting someone's life shorter then they wanted it to be? And, why is it morally OK to kill a non-human but it's bad to kill a human?

These may seem like stupid questions, but first off we never really question things like that. Murder is always thought of as bad, and chances are you've never even asked yourself why. I agree that it is bad, but what I'm getting to is about abortion. If the only immoral part of murder is that you are hurting the victim's family, friends, etc. then abortion wouldn't be wrong if the mother wanted it. The fetus wouldn't know anyone. And, if the bad part of murder was cutting someone's life short, well then abortion might be OK because a fetus is probably to young to not want to die. And what divides the line between killing another organism and killing a human could really affect whether abortion is moral or not. What makes another organism different then a human? Is it that humans are conscience of themselves and their surroundings? Is it that they have learned to make their own decisions and everything they do is not just an instinctive reaction? Because if those are what separates humans and other organisms, it wouldn't be wrong to kill a fetus I believe. I don't think fetuses are conscience of themselves and their surroindings, and I don't think they can make choices outside of instintive reactions.

Just some food for thought.

[Ben Kenobi]

well then abortion might be OK because a fetus is probably to young to not want to die.

No dice. How would you know the desires of the unborn child?

If the only immoral part of murder is that you are hurting the victim's family, friends, etc.

Just the wantedness argument from a different tack. Should popularity determine a person's worth? No. Just as we do not kill the homeless because no one wants them, neither should we kill the unborn child because his mother did not want him.

Secondly, your argument does not say why the mother gets to choose? What if the father wanted the child, would he not get a say?

I don't think fetuses are conscience of themselves and their surroindings, and I don't think they can make choices outside of instintive reactions.

Just because someone does not know you have robbed them, that does not justify your actions. The same works for murder. Suppose you were under anaestetia? You would no longer be conscious of your surroundings. Does this make it right for me to kill you?

[Jaguar]

Re: Which part of murder is immoral?

Originally posted by johncmcleod
And, if the bad part of murder was cutting someone's life short, well then abortion might be OK because a fetus is probably to young to not want to die.

A three year old wouldn't object to being castrated if you gave him new toys in exchange. Doesn't mean you're being fair to him.

[Jaguar]

BTW, this is a very thoughtful thread. I congratulate you.

[Proteus_MST]

Brings me to a related Topic:
Why is Murder a Crime, which should be punished, if it is done by Civilians,
but as soon as it involves Soldiers and War, murder is justified most of the times (and will sometimes even be rewarded with Medals).
(If the people kiled are enemy Soldiers of course )

[Berzerker]

Murder is immoral because:

1) The act takes what does not belong to the taker
2) The act takes what was given to the victim by the creator
3) The act is hypocritical

[Victor Galis]

Murder is immoral because it causes harm to the victim.

[Frozzy]

Which part of murder is immoral?

The "killing" part

Is it ruining the lives of the people close to that person?Is it cutting someone's life shorter then they wanted it to be? And, why is it morally OK to kill a non-human but it's bad to kill a human?

a) It is not ruining their lives, but it is causing distress.
b) It is cutting their life shorted than they expected it to be, and it is
c) It is farm-animals purpose to be slaughtered for food. It has been they main stay of human food for millenia, and they are below us in the food chain, thus nature is dictating they should be eaten by those higher. If you are talking about ritual sheep killing, then I don't know

I agree that it is bad, but what I'm getting to is about abortion. If the only immoral part of murder is that you are hurting the victim's family, friends, etc. then abortion wouldn't be wrong if the mother wanted it. The fetus wouldn't know anyone.

When the foetus is concious, he is a living person. Merriam-Webster defines murder as the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought. Unlawfully killing dictates that the law forbids it, which, in most countries, it does not. "Killing a person" is open to interpretation. What is a person? "one that is recognized by law as the subject of rights and duties" Now... it depends whether or not foeti are recognised by law. This is causing great debate in NZ at the moment. I think US law says that after 20 weeks, the foetus is concious, thus is recognised by law. So, if the baby is aborted before 20 weeks, s/he is not "murdered". Now, the last part "with malicious aforethought". I'm pretty sure the baby is not being mutilated or killed by the mother because she wants it to die. It is because the mother does not want the foetus to come into life living a most miserable one due the the fact his/her parent(s) can't afford to have her. Thus, abortion within 20 weeks of pregnancy is not murder

[Dinner]

Murder is wrong because you kill an innocent.

[MikeH]

Murder's not immoral.

Murder's outlawed in most religions, societies because the society is more successful if people don't need to defend themselves (and their property) from people within their own community. That doesn't apply to abortion.

That's also why execution is often allowed in countries where murder is considered 'immoral'. Because it's a state punishment which is seen to protect the society.

[Verres]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Murder is wrong because you kill an innocent.

So does this mean if they are not an innocent then it is not immoral to kill them? Say, if they were guilty of 1st degree murder, killing them would not be immoral?

[Q Classic]

murder is moral. indeed, it is a critical duty of every human being to go out and kill his fellow man today. the sooner we do that, the sooner our species will go extinct, and the sooner that happens, the better off earth will be. altruism in its ultimate form.

[Verres]

I think you're probably right on this occasion, Mike.

[Kuciwalker]

Which part of murder is immoral?

the cutting up and eating their body parts part

wait, not everyone does that?! oops!

[Atahualpa]

murder is immoral when a single individual or a small groups do it in their own interest

if a big nation or religious power is behind the actions it is very moral then all of a sudden. Actually it becomes a "need" to do so. We need to go there and kill them. We need to destroy their "will to fight". Need to fly planes into buildings, need to send troops before/or else/to show them blabla