What is the most powerfull quote in literature for you?

[mrmitchell]

Is it just me or was the Christian version the most confusingly worded?

[Ben Kenobi]

Molly:

You could not have given better proof to Berz.

"do naught"
"Hurt not"
"What is hateful to you, do not"
"when it shall not do unto another"
"not do unto another"

All of these ask you to merely refrain from hurtful actions, precisely the statement of Berz.

The Hadith is an interesting passage.

"No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself"

A positive declaration, but it only asks you to want the same things your brother would want. It does not expect action.

Now, what does Jesus ask?

"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them.

Not 'desire', but 'do'.

However, I'm not a scholar of the hadiths, so I don't know if Molly has rendered the passage correctly as 'desires'.

[Ben Kenobi]

Is it just me or was the Christian version the most confusingly worded?

I believe Molly uses the KJV.

In the NIV, the same passage

Luke 6:31

"Do to others as you would have them do to you."

[Bosh]

You missed the oldest appearance of the rule

Analects 5:12 "If I do not with others to do something to me, I wish not to do it to them"

[Berzerker]

Molly -

Both:

The Mahabharata:

"This is the sum of duty: do naught to others which if done to thee would cause thee pain."

And the Buddhist Udana-Varqa:

"Hurt not others with that which pains yourself."

It is also to be found in the Talmud:

"What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow men. That is the entire Law, all the rest is commentary."

and in Zoroastrianism:

"That nature only is good when it shall not do unto another whatever is not good for its own self."

Dadistan-i-Dinik

And in Islam:

"No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself."

from the Hadiths.

The passage from the Gospel of Matthew reads:

"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law of the prophets."

As Ben points out, there is a distinction to be made between refraining from actions and as Jesus instructed, acting positively, but the thought is clearly very old with slight modifications. I know Buddha came after the Mahabharata and obviously both preceded Jesus and Mohammed, but the Talmud may be contemporaneous with the Hindu scripture. I believe both were written ~1400-1100 BC, but it seems obvious the concept goes much further back.

[Berzerker]

You missed the oldest appearance of the rule

Analects 5:12 "If I do not with others to do something to me, I wish not to do it to them"

Huh? Now that is confusing. Where does this come from?

[GePap]

Actually Ben, the hadith, as is writen there, says that only someone who wishes FOR the other what they whish for themselves is a true believer. For example: you wish to be rich? Then wish everyone else also be rich.

[monolith94]

"Eh bien, tu l'as vu, ton Dieu, Iokanaan, mais moi, moi . . . tu ne m'as jamais vue. Si tu m'avais vue, tu m'aurais aimee. Moi, je t'ai vu, Iokanaan, et je t'ai aime. Oh! comme je t'ai aime. Je t'aime encore, Iokanaan. Je t'aime que toi . . . J'ai soif de ta beaute. J'ai faim de ton corps. Et ni le vin, ni les fruits ne peuvent apaiser mon desir. Que ferai-je, Iokanaan, maintenant? Ni les fleuves ni les grandes eaux, ne pourraient eteindre ma passion. J'etais une Princesse, tu m'as dedaignee. J'etais une vierge, tu m'as defloree. J'etais chaste, tu as rempli mes veines de feu . . . Ah! Ah! pourquoi ne m'as-tu pas regardee, Iokanaan? Si tu m'avais regardee tu m'aurais aimee. Je sais bien que tu m'aurais aimee, et le mystere de l'amour est plus grand que le mystere de la mort. Il ne faut regarder que l'amour."

Salome, Oscar Wilde

[Ben Kenobi]

Actually Ben, the hadith, as is writen there, says that only someone who wishes FOR the other what they whish for themselves is a true believer. For example: you wish to be rich? Then wish everyone else also be rich.

My critique stands. Wishing ! = Doing.

[GePap]

BUt if you do what you do not wish, then you are lying to yourself, no? Either your action is wrong, or your sentiment is.

I don't see the difference as significant as you make it out to be.

[monolith94]

"Ah! wherefore didst thou not look at me, Iokanaan? With the cloak of thine hands, and with the cloak of thy blasphemies thou didst hide thy face. Thou didst put upon thine eyes the covering of him who would see his God. Well, thou hast seen thy God, Iokanaan, but me, me, thou didst never see. If thou hadst seen me thou hadst loved me. I saw thee, and I loved thee. Oh, how I loved thee! I love thee yet, Iokanaan. I love only thee . . . . I am athirst for thy beauty; I am hungry for thy body; and neither wine nor apples can appease my desire. What shall I do now, Iokanaan? Neither the floods nor the great waters can quench my passion. I was a princess, and thou didst scorn me. I was a virgin, and thou didst take my virginity from me. I was chaste, and thou didst fill my veins with fire . . . . Ah! ah! wherefore didst thou not look at me? If thou hadst looked at me thou hadst loved me. Well I know that thou wouldst have loved me, and the mystery of Love is greater than the mystery of Death."

Basically the same passage translated.

[Ben Kenobi]

BUt if you do what you do not wish, then you are lying to yourself, no?

Or otherwise, if you do not do what you wish to do? Yes that would be a hypocrite.

It reminds me of an old proverb.

"If wishes were horses, than beggars would ride."

[monolith94]

I didn't know proverbs contained misspelling. Ah well, learn something new everyday!

[monolith94]

A thread about literature and we turn to religious texts. That settles it, apolyton is the driest place EVER.

[Tiberius]

Not really literature, but I like it:

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
- Albert Einstein