Watch TV or Go to Jail

[Ming]

Originally posted by Jac de Molay
Limited opinion of what? I simply don't buy that notion that advertising doesn't create needs in and of itself.

Your limited knowledge of the "buying decision process"... a very scientific and researched process.

I think there's plenty of real world examples that show that advertising creates needs that are either already filled or non-existent.

If a need is filled... then there is a need to begin with
As far as non-existent... advertising can't create a need that doesn't exist... you have not provided any proof of that opinion...

Fast-food marketing to children is a good example. Most well-raised children have access to nourishing food and plenty of it.

If kids wanted nourishing food all the time... why do they want non nourishing food... like cookies, candy, junk food... the answer is simple. They like it. Advertising does not create the "desire/need" ... it just tries to position the product as something that addresses the desire that is ALREADY THERE.

But through advertising blitzes, and toy merchandising tie-ins, they are luring an audience that:

A) Already has access to the product they're selling.

Maybe access to nourishing food... but not for the type of food they want to eat. As far as toy merchandising... yeah, they want the toy... big deal. They have a desire for more toys... ALL KIDS DO. Advertising is just showing them the toys that are available. So again, advertising isn't creating anything except providing information on the toys that are there.

B) Is uninformed, and incapable, of differentiation between product alternatives to begin with.

Incapable... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHA.
If you want to use your homespum "real life" examples, I will do the same. My kids won't eat at certain fast food restaurants... Why... because they say the food sucks. NO amount of advertising or toy give aways can make them want to eat at a place where they don't like the food. You are implying that advertising can make them eat stuff they don't want... It can't. They make their choice based on what they like... not advertising.

As far as give away toys...My daughter wanted a specific toy that was being used as a give away...
(beenie babies) She never asked to eat at the place she didn't like... she asked me to go to the place and simply buy it for her. Beenie Babies were not successful because of advertising... they were cute, and kids loved them without the "mind control of advertising" They were a success without advertising. So the fast food place ad showed here where she could get them... it didn't make her want to eat their crappy food.

Channel One has no place in schools where advertisers have access to this kind of "dream" target audience. The mission of schools is to educate. And they might be getting something in return, but they're, in essence, selling student's time for it.

Yes... their mission is to educate. And they can do a better job of it by having the right tools... something they wouldn't have without channel one. You may make all the noise you want about how schools shouldn't have to do this... but wake up to reality. They don't have these tools, so they have done what they need to do to get them. So again... the experts disagree with your opinon. I'll go with the experts

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Ming
However... unlike others here, I don't think it's mind control and that it can force people to do things they don't want to do... that is naive, and just plain silly and incorrect.

Like I said, you just aren't very good at it. Not good enough to litterally control people's minds, but everyone has a weakness and advertising is good enough that they can exploit those weaknesses. With enough ads over a large enough audience, you're bound to hit the weaknes of atleast a few people, and that's the whole idea of it.

My opinion has been based on a lifetime of real world experience as a member of the industry.

And mine a lifetime experience as the target. You said yourself, the average person exposed to thousands of ads every day. Anyone has the experience and knowledge required to be an expert on the subject if they stop and think about it for 2 minutes.

[MikeH]

Originally posted by Ming


Your limited knowledge of the "buying decision process"... a very scientific and researched process.

You need to preface that with "This is the science bit"

And you claim to be a pro.

[Tiberius]

Ming, you keep ignoring the basic fact that people buy things because: a) they need them or b) because they want them. It is not the same thing. AFAIK this is among the first things you learn in this job

It is true that advertising can't create the need for a product, but it can create the desire for a product, and it is enough in most cases for people to buy it. When the producct fullfills a need, that's the best case scenario, because you will seel much easier. But it isn't necessarry to exist a need; a desire is enough.

You keep using that car argument, which first of all is a bad one, because a car is expensive and even if you want a BMW it is difficult to buy it, but that wasn't my point. But since you used it: yes, people who have a lot of money will buy such a car. Do you want me to say that rich people really need 4 or 5 cars in their garage? A BMW, a Mercedes, a Ferrari and God knows what else? No, they've bought them because they wanted to, not because they needed all those cars.

The consumer has the final decision, and if some people are more easily led than others then they will buy what they are told to, but the vast majority have the mental capacity to make a decision based on the information presented to them,

That's true for adults, but not for kids. Kids can't control their desires so well like adults. Hey, I'd like to have a new bicycle or computer or mobile phone or whatever, but I have more important things to do with my money. Tell this to a kid.

It is bad enough that kids can watch commercials at home. Now they have to watch them in schools? What kind of education is that?

[Ming]

Originally posted by Osweld
Anyone has the experience and knowledge required to be an expert on the subject if they stop and think about it for 2 minutes.

Obvously not... or they wouldn't need to pay real experts top dollar to do it right, or they wouldn't need to hire people that have advanced degrees on the subject

Your "two minutes of thought" don't equal a college education on the subject, or multiple years of real life experience in the industry

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Ming


Obvously not... or they wouldn't need to pay real experts top dollar to do it right, or they wouldn't need to hire people that have advanced degrees on the subject

Your "two minutes of thought" don't equal a college education on the subject, or multiple years of real life experience in the industry

No, I don't have the sleaziness required to work in one of the most morally corrupt buisnesses you can be in without breaking the law, and I don't have the expertiece of manipulation and exploitation required to work in it, but I can understand the industries objectives perfectly.

[MikeH]

Originally posted by Ming


Obvously not... or they wouldn't need to pay real experts top dollar to do it right, or they wouldn't need to hire people that have advanced degrees on the subject

Your "two minutes of thought" don't equal a college education on the subject, or multiple years of real life experience in the industry

Why do so many 'experts' create such boring/annoying adverts then?

[Sarxis]

I remember Channel One during the first Gulf War. The obvious target market advertisings of tennis shoes and candy bars made me sick even as a 10th grader.

I also refused to watch it, but just diddled on paper my Evil Pencil character.

[Arrian]

Switching is when people just use their remote to switch channels when a commercial comes on.

That's what I do. I ****ing HATE commercials. Almost every single one of them sucks. Occasionally there is one that is funny/witty, and I appreciate that, if I actually fail to flick...err...switch away.

I'm highly suspicious of this "channel 1" thing. Current events, if that's what it's for, can be taught using print media. And the whole "kids these days won't read, but will watch TV" excuse is a copout. That's not a trend one should be encouraging.

-Arrian

[duke o' york]

Originally posted by Tiberius
Ming, you keep ignoring the basic fact that people buy things because: a) they need them or b) because they want them. It is not the same thing. AFAIK this is among the first things you learn in this job

But even when you need something then there is still the element of choice, and that's what advertisers are tyring to make you appreciate. They are aware that there are many similar products out there and that you'll probably only buy one - so they try to ensure that that is their product.
When you were at school (however many years ago that was), then your mother would announce that you needed new shoes. You probably did. But what were the chances of your wearing a pair of shoes that she had chosen for you? (Assuming that you're older than say, 8 here) You've got an idea of what you consider good and bad shoes and what you consider cool and uncool shoes, and you're not likely to walk out in the cheapest pair if your mother can afford better. Just because you need something does not eliminate the element of choice.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Tiberius
Ming, you keep ignoring the basic fact that people buy things because: a) they need them or b) because they want them. It is not the same thing.

No... I've never said they were the same thing. However... What you seem to be ignoring is that if you "want" something... it's the product that you want.
Advertising may show you the product... but it's not what makes you want the product. The reason why you want it is your personal reason. An Ad may position the product in way that you want it so that you can see that it is something you want... but the "want" was already there.

It is true that advertising can't create the need for a product,

So very true...

but it can create the desire for a product, and it is enough in most cases for people to buy it.

No... it can't create the desire... the desire comes from within yourself. However, a good ad will play on that desire... and try to convince you that our product is the one that can fullfill your desire.

Do you want me to say that rich people really need 4 or 5 cars in their garage? A BMW, a Mercedes, a Ferrari and God knows what else? No, they've bought them because they wanted to, not because they needed all those cars.

Whether it's a need to own a bunch of fancy cars... or just a desire... it's no different than you wanting more than one pair of pants or women who need 1000 pair of shoes... Your point seems to be just an anti rich rant vs an argument that advertising makes them buy them.

Kids can't control their desires so well like adults.

That I will agree with... but in most cases... it's not the kids that are actually buying the products... it's their parents. Advertising doesn't make parents want to spoil their children... I would say that it's more of societies problem... the need or desire to "stay ahead of the jones"... Don't try to lay the blame at the feet of advertising... While advertising shows the products... it doesn't MAKE PEOPLE act the way the do.

I sure as hell don't buy my kids toys just because somebody else has it... or because they saw some commercial and decided they want it. A lot more goes into my buying decision...

It is bad enough that kids can watch commercials at home. Now they have to watch them in schools? What kind of education is that?

They already are exposed to commercials at school. Are you saying that kids shouldn't be allowed to wear clothes at school if they have a brand name on them.
Are you saying that pop and vending machines shouldn't be allowed... that all brand names have to be removed from ALL items that come into a school.

Their education is being enhanced by the equipment that schools get from Channel One... are you saying that they should be denied it simply because you don't like commericals

[Ming]

Originally posted by MikeH
Why do so many 'experts' create such boring/annoying adverts then?

While an ad may be boring or annoying to you... it's usually because you aren't the target for the ad... and that the ad is probably far more effective against people that they are targeting.

But after saying that... yeah, there are some bad ads out there... In many cases... they come from committee decisions... and we all know how stupid that can sometimes be.

But then again... there are a lot of bad movies... bad songs... bad books... advertising doesn't have a lock on stupidity

[MikeH]

Originally posted by Ming
They already are exposed to commercials at school. Are you saying that kids shouldn't be allowed to wear clothes at school if they have a brand name on them.

Yes. School uniforms!

Originally posted by Ming Are you saying that pop and vending machines shouldn't be allowed...

Yes, ban them. Especially as mostly they are soft drinks and sweets/chocolates that just lead to fat unhealthy kids.

Originally posted by Ming that all brand names have to be removed from ALL items that come into a school.

It's probably impossible to do it on everything unfortunately but the above would get rid of most of the problems... actually that'd make it like my old school.

[MikeH]

Originally posted by Ming
While an ad may be boring or annoying to you... it's usually because you aren't the target for the ad... and that the ad is probably far more effective against people that they are targeting.

But after saying that... yeah, there are some bad ads out there... In many cases... they come from committee decisions... and we all know how stupid that can sometimes be.

Or financial convenience. The worst ones we get are adverts that are obviously American ads that have English accents dubbed on them. I don't know anyone who doesn't find those intensely irritating. It's Ok for voice overs but not where you've got people trying to lip synch with the ad. They are starting to just show the US ads now though.

[Ming]

I went to a catholic school where we were forced to wear uniforms... I wouldn't wish that on any kid

Oh... and nice troll