Watch TV or Go to Jail

[MikeH]

That wasn't a troll. I am actually very in favour of uniforms. At primary school there was no uniform, I got bullied for having **** clothes (my parents' fault but there you go) Secondary School it was all uniform so it wasn't a problem.

[C0ckney]

pretty much every school over here has a uniform. still there are advantages for the schoolkid, girls are made to wear (fairly) short skirts, i certainly enjoyed the view when i was at school.

[MikeH]

I am still highly sexually traumatised by having been surrounded by uniformed school girls for so many years without being able to **** any of them. *sigh*

[Ming]

Originally posted by MikeH
Or financial convenience. The worst ones we get are adverts that are obviously American ads that have English accents dubbed on them. I don't know anyone who doesn't find those intensely irritating. It's Ok for voice overs but not where you've got people trying to lip synch with the ad. They are starting to just show the US ads now though.

Yeah... I would agree... But you are right that it is a financial concern. What many people don't realize is that the average cost of nationally run 30 sec commercial in the US is now around a 800,000 dollars (remember, I said average and national... I don't want to hear how cheap some of the local commercials are... because they are cheap and usually bad) Think about that. If you were to produce a two hour film at that spending level, that would translate to $192 million dollars, which is far more than most movies. I personally think it's stupid to spend that kind of money, and then make cheap fixes to run the ads in a different country... but it does come down to budget. The more you spend making it, the less you can air it.

[MikeH]

Originally posted by Ming Yeah... I would agree... But you are right that it is a financial concern. What many people don't realize is that the average cost of nationally run 30 sec commercial in the US is now around a 800,000 dollars (remember, I said average and national... I don't want to hear how cheap some of the local commercials are... because they are cheap and usually bad) Think about that. If you were to produce a two hour film at that spending level, that would translate to $192 million dollars, which is far more than most movies. I personally think it's stupid to spend that kind of money, and then make cheap fixes to run the ads in a different country... but it does come down to budget. The more you spend making it, the less you can air it.

One thing I've wondered about before they say there's no such thing as bad publicity but is it possible that bad advertising can actually put people off buying your products? Which is something different to someone buying someone elses product because they have better adverts...

[MikeH]

Back to your point about expense:

It's an interesting point. Music videos are quite an extreme form of television, they have to get their point across in a few minutes, and cost a huge amount per second. I guess advertisements are an even more extreme format because you've got even less time to get your point across.

[C0ckney]

Originally posted by MikeH
I am still highly sexually traumatised by having been surrounded by uniformed school girls for so many years without being able to **** any of them. *sigh*

'and yet if i did it now, I would be the one to go to prison...'

[Ming]

Originally posted by MikeH
One thing I've wondered about before they say there's no such thing as bad publicity but is it possible that bad advertising can actually put people off buying your products? Which is something different to someone buying someone elses product because they have better adverts...

OH YEAH... there is nothing worse than pissing off your target audience... And some companies have done just that with their advertising. This is usually followed quickly by the Agency being fired... while the morons that actually had the final say and approved the campaign in the first place, hire a new agency

[MikeH]

There was that thing with Tampax (I think) recently where they started running ads making fun of their previous "you can be a superwoman if you use these" ads and replacing them with a load of "who wants to go around roller blading everywhere? You can just feel comfortable wearing these whilst veging around the house eating cake" which are MUCH more suitable for the English market. Not sure I've really seen many ad campaigns visibly admit that their previous campaign was a bit rubbish with a parody of it.

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by Ming

No... I've never said they were the same thing. However... What you seem to be ignoring is that if you "want" something... it's the product that you want.
Advertising may show you the product... but it's not what makes you want the product. The reason why you want it is your personal reason. An Ad may position the product in way that you want it so that you can see that it is something you want... but the "want" was already there.

No, I disagree. What you are saying is one scenario. Yes, sometimes it is like this how things happen. Other times Ads try to create a desire for something that people would normally not buy.

Whether it's a need to own a bunch of fancy cars... or just a desire... it's no different than you wanting more than one pair of pants or women who need 1000 pair of shoes... Your point seems to be just an anti rich rant vs an argument that advertising makes them buy them.

It is not a rant against rich people. I just used your example with the cars. People buy a bunch of crap they don't really need, because of the Ads they see.

That I will agree with... but in most cases... it's not the kids that are actually buying the products... it's their parents.
I sure as hell don't buy my kids toys just because somebody else has it... or because they saw some commercial and decided they want it. A lot more goes into my buying decision...

Oh comm'on!
"Daddy I want a Nintendo, please, I want a Nintendo, please, please, please!"
Sure, you won't buy it.

They already are exposed to commercials at school. Are you saying that kids shouldn't be allowed to wear clothes at school if they have a brand name on them.
Are you saying that pop and vending machines shouldn't be allowed... that all brand names have to be removed from ALL items that come into a school.

It is not the same thing. Kids don't look ads on clothes or vending machines instead of learning.

Their education is being enhanced by the equipment that schools get from Channel One... are you saying that they should be denied it simply because you don't like commericals

I actually like commercials (except those that I hate ) I also like marketing as a whole and I understand more about it that you might think. Not that this would be relevant here.

I'm just against using the power of advertising against kids. Money for schools shouldn't come from selling the kids' mind for equipments. The government could redirect some money used elsewhere (for unneccesarry wars for example) for schools, but I don't want to troll.

[Ramo]

This is absolutely insane. They get jailed for not wanting to watch advertising in school? Nothing less than totalitarianism.

[Ramo]

I really love how some people equate advertising to mind control. How silly

Advertising is commercial indoctrination, and has absolutely no place in a public school. If it didn't work, so much money wouldn't be going into it, and kids wouldn't be jailed for refusing to watch it.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Tiberius
No, I disagree. What you are saying is one scenario. Yes, sometimes it is like this how things happen. Other times Ads try to create a desire for something that people would normally not buy.

Ads only work on the desires you already have... they can NOT make you buy something you don't want. If an ad "works" on you... it's because the desire was already there in the first place.

People buy a bunch of crap they don't really need, because of the Ads they see.

People buy a lot of crap because they WANT TO... an ad doesn't MAKE THEM buy it. Get real. It's not the ad... it's the PRODUCT people want. An ad is just a nicer way for people to see the product. A person can see a nice car drive by and want it just as much, if not more.

Oh comm'on!
"Daddy I want a Nintendo, please, I want a Nintendo, please, please, please!"
Sure, you won't buy it.

Maybe you are a play toy, a minion, or just a sucker when it comes to your kids, but I'm not... I judge every item I buy them solely on what I think about the product... not the advertising.

It is not the same thing. Kids don't look ads on clothes or vending machines instead of learning.

If you don't think kids know the difference between ads and educational tv... you aren't giving kids any credit.
They do... so yes... ads on a tv is no different than a teacher wearing a nike shirt.

I'm just against using the power of advertising against kids. Money for schools shouldn't come from selling the kids' mind for equipments. The government could redirect some money used elsewhere (for unneccesarry wars for example) for schools, but I don't want to troll.

This isn't about your warm and fuzzy idea of how schools "SHOULD" be funded... Wake up to reality... you are living in a dream world that doesn't exist. The facts are simple... the schools don't have the money to provide the kids the educational benifitts that come from having the equipment. They have to exist in the REAL world... and the experts have determinded that the kids gain more by having the equipment.

Would it be BETTER if the schools had ALL THE MONEY IN THE WORLD... (and not from your pocket)... and they could buy all the great things to improve the education process... sure... but this is the real world. And fortunately, it's not your decision to make... because you would deny the kids a better education.

They aren't selling childrens minds... (that's just a lame troll)

[Japher]

Ming is right, for once

Advertising doesn't really work on kids. You tell 'em "buy this it's cool" the next thing you know kids are saying that "it's" lame. "Drugs are bad" = "Drugs are good" in a kids mind... Rebellion is a youth factor.

[Ramo]

People buy a lot of crap because they WANT TO... an ad doesn't MAKE THEM buy it. Get real. It's not the ad... it's the PRODUCT people want. An ad is just a nicer way for people to see the product. A person can see a nice car drive by and want it just as much, if not more.

Look at the biotech industry. Half of the ads don't even mention what the drug is supposed to do ("ask your doctor if you need xxxx"). So these businesses' misplaced priorities drum up demand for obscenely expensive drugs by getting them more visibility, and people end up spending insane amounts of money on brand-name drugs instead of buying far less costly generics. A commercial culture is in opposition to people making informed choices.